[meteorite-list] It is ridiculous now.

From: MexicoDoug_at_aol.com <MexicoDoug_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:31:27 2004
Message-ID: <12a.3bbd38bc.2d6d07f3_at_aol.com>

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First, thanks to John Gwilliam for the real nice comments and hope there is=20
an idea or two worth discussing in my contribution... just hoping I can stil=
l=20
to do some cussing once in a while without any eloquence.=A0 The last post o=
n=20
fraudbusting was an investment of time, mainly for the reasons John cited: a=
=20
filled up inbox of complaints that I am sympathetic to, but that become tedi=
ously=20
repetitive.=A0=20

Further I=B4d like to agree that keeping things positive is probably the nic=
est=20
message for the IMCA to go.=A0 Let me qualify that by saying I met the IMCA=20
directors by briefly crashing uninvited their quite serious meeting to addre=
ss=20
recent unrelated issues, in hopes of meeting some new meteorite people, not=20=
even=20
being a member, and yet to sell a meteorite in this lifetime.=A0 So the valu=
e=20
of my opinion is still as an outsider with no real interest other not to mak=
e=20
anyone too irate over what I say and maybe try to make a few like minded=20
friends.

Next, and only second in order because I would prefer to stay positive - it=20
is good for IMCA's image - Ken mentioned ebay policy regarding contacting=20
buyers.=A0 If taken properly out of context, which is assumed, ebay is clear=
ly more=20
worried about preventing potential chaos from dubious messages to buyers in=20=
the=20
purchase process and requires a victim to go it alone even when intentions=20
are good.=A0 That seems a bit of a departure from the rules of a real flea m=
arket,=20
and probably enough to kill the idea of throwing a wrench into fradulent=20
transactions directly.=A0 But it doesn't mean there the website isn't open t=
o=20
inviting potentiasl victims to learn more and act on fraud one it is confirm=
ed they=20
were and feel victimized.

That seems a better route to go anyway.=A0 So some variation of the strawman=
=20
letter in my last post appropriately and posted on the IMCA website.=A0 Whil=
e it=20
is a must to work in the confines of the rules (Drawing the distinction betw=
een=20
ebay rules and illegality, keeping in mind who the real suspected offenders=20
are), perhaps an honest variation of a subsequent meek contact might be ok,=20=
if=20
it is based on a question of feedback that they left.=A0 I.e., you left posi=
tive=20
feedback for "Galaxyglassyhead" yet I have heard from some IMCA members (lin=
k=20
imca.org) that this person (not a direct link, but a clear way to link to th=
e=20
complaint page against "Galaxyglassyhead" on the IMCA site) is suspected of=20
selling fakes.=A0 Can you give me any information on your experience with=20
authenticating your item?=20

Finally, the IMCA, if going that route, can play the same game as ebay:=A0=20
"While all of our members are in good standing, the organization is not=20
responsible for the comments of the anti fraud squad section of the website,=
 and=20
provides it only as a convenient free service to interchange feedback of pot=
ential=20
interest to buyers concerned with authenticity of their purchases.=A0 Commen=
ts=20
reflect the opinions of the posters, and IMCA does not permit members in goo=
d=20
standing to post knowingly false or misleading feedback. Any member doing so=
 will=20
be expelled and such expulsion documented on this site in "Former Members".

Ken, finally you said:

"This glassface1 can burn some newbies.=20
However, those burnt will learn of IMCA and ask=20
for membership."

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this point.=A0 My first "meteorite"=20
purchases were a few rocks from a "suspected" dishonest person: my entire tr=
avel=20
budget for that trip - and although that person - a rancher - had no use for=
 a=20
computer, I was burnt just the same.=A0 Call it a rite of passage, I bet thi=
s is the=20
rule with most of the list members.=A0 That was $100 embarrassingly well spe=
nt=20
on rocks from a cattle ranch for me, because it motivated me to study the=20
subject seriously, buy a microscope and use it, reference books, join this l=
ist,=20
and learn a heck of a lot in a short time.=A0 If someone tried to prevent me=
 from=20
touching the hot stove and getting burnt at that first time, I am not sure I=
=20
would have been overly receptive given that it was the fantasy I was buying=20
and it was real good while it lasted.=A0 I am not even sure=A0 what I would=20=
tell the=20
cowboy if I saw him again.=A0 He didn't give me a written guaranty although=20=
he=20
expressed HE was sure they were meteorites.=A0 I still have doubts what he=20
knew.=A0 The only painful detail is that I still have the stones and each on=
e has=20
evidence of having been subjected to a streak test before I ever saw them.

I relate this story because it seems appropriate that I recall what mindset=20=
I=20
had as a first time buyer and how I would have best been won over by the IMC=
A=20
as such - definitely not as a policeman ... seems to go against human nature=
=20
and most importantly developing fun and trust.

Hope not to be too wordy or inconsistent!

Saludos!
Doug


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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><HTML><FONT SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=
=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">First, thanks to John Gwilliam for=20=
the real nice comments and hope there is an idea or two worth discussing in=20=
my contribution... just hoping I can still to do some cussing once in a whil=
e without any eloquence.=A0 The last post on fraudbusting was an investment=20=
of time, mainly for the reasons John cited: a filled up inbox of complaints=20=
that I am sympathetic to, but that become tediously repetitive.=A0 <BR>
<BR>
Further I=B4d like to agree that keeping things positive is probably the nic=
est message for the IMCA to go.=A0 Let me qualify that by saying I met the I=
MCA directors by briefly crashing uninvited their quite serious meeting to a=
ddress recent unrelated issues, in hopes of meeting some new meteorite peopl=
e, not even being a member, and yet to sell a meteorite in this lifetime.=
=A0 So the value of my opinion is still as an outsider with no real interest=
 other not to make anyone too irate over what I say and maybe try to make a=20=
few like minded friends.<BR>
<BR>
Next, and only second in order because I would prefer to stay positive - it=20=
is good for IMCA's image - Ken mentioned ebay policy regarding contacting bu=
yers.=A0 If taken properly out of context, which is assumed, ebay is clearly=
 more worried about preventing potential chaos from dubious messages to buye=
rs in the purchase process and requires a victim to go it alone even when in=
tentions are good.=A0 That seems a bit of a departure from the rules of a re=
al flea market, and probably enough to kill the idea of throwing a wrench in=
to fradulent transactions directly.=A0 But it doesn't mean there the website=
 isn't open to inviting potentiasl victims to learn more and act on fraud on=
e it is confirmed they were and feel victimized.<BR>
<BR>
That seems a better route to go anyway.=A0 So some variation of the strawman=
 letter in my last post appropriately and posted on the IMCA website.=A0 Whi=
le it is a must to work in the confines of the rules (Drawing the distinctio=
n between ebay rules and illegality, keeping in mind who the real suspected=20=
offenders are), perhaps an honest variation of a subsequent meek contact mig=
ht be ok, if it is based on a question of feedback that they left.=A0 I.e.,=20=
you left positive feedback for "Galaxyglassyhead" yet I have heard from some=
 IMCA members (link imca.org) that this person (not a direct link, but a cle=
ar way to link to the complaint page against "Galaxyglassyhead" on the IMCA=20=
site) is suspected of selling fakes.=A0 Can you give me any information on y=
our experience with authenticating your item? <BR>
<BR>
Finally, the IMCA, if going that route, can play the same game as ebay:=A0 "=
While all of our members are in good standing, the organization is not respo=
nsible for the comments of the anti fraud squad section of the website, and=20=
provides it only as a convenient free service to interchange feedback of pot=
ential interest to buyers concerned with authenticity of their purchases.=
=A0 Comments reflect the opinions of the posters, and IMCA does not permit m=
embers in good standing to post knowingly false or misleading feedback. Any=20=
member doing so will be expelled and such expulsion documented on this site=20=
in "Former Members".<BR>
<BR>
Ken, finally you said:<BR>
<BR>
"This glassface1 can burn some newbies. <BR>
However, those burnt will learn of IMCA and ask <BR>
for membership."<BR>
<BR>
I wholeheartedly agree with you on this point.=A0 My first "meteorite" purch=
ases were a few rocks from a "suspected" dishonest person: my entire travel=20=
budget for that trip - and although that person - a rancher - had no use for=
 a computer, I was burnt just the same.=A0 Call it a rite of passage, I bet=20=
this is the rule with most of the list members.=A0 That was $100 embarrassin=
gly well spent on rocks from a cattle ranch for me, because it motivated me=20=
to study the subject seriously, buy a microscope and use it, reference books=
, join this list, and learn a heck of a lot in a short time.=A0 If someone t=
ried to prevent me from touching the hot stove and getting burnt at that fir=
st time, I am not sure I would have been overly receptive given that it was=20=
the fantasy I was buying and it was real good while it lasted.=A0 I am not e=
ven sure=A0 what I would tell the cowboy if I saw him again.=A0 He didn't gi=
ve me a written guaranty although he expressed HE was sure they were meteori=
tes.=A0 I still have doubts what he knew.=A0 The only painful detail is that=
 I still have the stones and each one has evidence of having been subjected=20=
to a streak test before I ever saw them.<BR>
<BR>
I relate this story because it seems appropriate that I recall what mindset=20=
I had as a first time buyer and how I would have best been won over by the I=
MCA as such - definitely not as a policeman ... seems to go against human na=
ture and most importantly developing fun and trust.<BR>
<BR>
Hope not to be too wordy or inconsistent!<BR>
<BR>
Saludos!<BR>
Doug<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Received on Tue 24 Feb 2004 03:02:59 PM PST