[meteorite-list] Iranian Fireball Was Of Geophysical Origin

From: Rosemary Hackney <ltcrose_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:31:22 2004
Message-ID: <000e01c3f264$dabbd4a0$e1964cd8_at_default>

Hmm.. Charles..
That is an interesting thought, You are right. Volcanoes can throw it up for
sure.
Mt St Helen dust was all over the place down here.

Another thought I had...watch out. That the trinitite was formed in a sandy
area ( White Sands). Elma is in Washington ( sandy ocean beaches) Iran (
open sandy deserts). Is there a common ground here ( no pun ). I have heard
of lightening strikes on the Dunes in Colorado ( sandy mountains) and
fulgurites forms from the fusion. Has there been any analysis between the
geometeorite and fulgurites? or am I stretching here?

Thanks for the thoughts Charles.

Rosie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Viau" <cviau_at_beld.net>
To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 8:16 AM
Subject: FW: [meteorite-list] Iranian Fireball Was Of Geophysical Origin


>
> Rosie, et al...
>
> That was interesting, and I read some of that as well. Another
> possibility, and bit of a stretch.. but plausible: Just like we have
> Martian meteorites here on earth, so would we not have some of the
> ejecta from our terrestrial impacts also in orbit around the Sun, and
> should we not expect some of our own material to come back to earth as
> well? The question is what would material like that look like, and how
> would it analyze? It should have characteristics of both terrestrial
> matter, and matter that has been exposed to cosmic rays, with a fusion
> crust from re-entry I would imagine. How could we prove (or disprove)
> the origin of this material? Just another thought..
>
> CharlyV
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Rosemary
> Hackney
> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:34 PM
> To: Adam Hupe; meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iranian Fireball Was Of Geophysical Origin
>
> Hello Adam, et al... Sorry I missed everyone at Tucson. Had the flu bug
> or
> some virus. Still is hanging on 3-4 weeks now. Doc said I would
> live..lol.
> I hope Michael forgave me for not showing up.. I tried to recruit Dean
> in my
> place.
> Yes Tom.. I have some nice new ones :-)
> A 8.6 gram Drakes Creek from Tennessee. An area near me. Is pretty. And
> a
> Huss Anthony I just won.
>
> But back to the Elma... When I was around White Sands, I went to the
> back
> side to the Trinity site. I found a little rock shop outside the
> boundary.
> They had Trinitite form the Trinity site. I bought some of it. The Elma
> reminds me of the Trinitite in composition and appearance.
>
> As to the Geometeorites.. There is a nice article on the internet about
> geometeorites. Just plug Geometeorite into a search engine. The
> physicist
> who wrote this article seemed to think Elma was a geometeorite. The
> explanation made sense to me. From what I understand, it is formed when
> Lightening fuses material aloft in the upper atmosphere. It stands to
> reason material would be aloft from tornadoes or wind sheer or frontal
> winds. When lightening strikes the material, it fuses into glass like
> objects that fall out of the atmosphere... like meteorites.. ergo
> "geometeorite" because the material was terrestrial in origin.
>
> Anyway...just a thought.
>
> Rosie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adam Hupe" <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>
> To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 4:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iranian Fireball Was Of Geophysical Origin
>
>
> > Dear Charles, Rosemary and List,
> >
> > Dr. Andrei Ol'khovatov from Moscow, Russia weighed in on the Elma
> incident
> > and came to the same conclusion, a geometeorite was to blame. It is
> amazing
> > how similar the two events are. The kid with the burnt fingers in
> Elma
> and
> > a kid with a burnt face in Iran. Three laboratories weighed in on the
> Elma
> > incident. Two believe it to be a geophysical event and one believes
> there
> > is a more earthly explanation. To me it is an unsolved mystery. I
> stopped
> > commenting in public because there is no way to prove what happened
> either
> > way and it was causing some grief with a few List members.
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > Adam Hupe
> > The Hupe Collection
> > IMCA 2185
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Charles Viau" <cviau_at_beld.net>
> > To: "'Meteorite Mailing List'" <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 1:53 PM
> > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Iranian Fireball Was Of Geophysical
> Origin
> >
> >
> > > It very well could be related, and why it was so important to
> properly
> > > document the Elma incident, even though all of the 'experts' gave
> the
> > > principal investigators such grief. This is what science is all
> about. I
> > > would hope that there are some geo-physicists out there that will
> want
> > > to pull some of this material together from those 3 sources and look
> for
> > > similarities. The people who witnessed such events were not stupid,
> nor
> > > were they having any hallucinations.
> > >
> > > CharlyV
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com
> > > [mailto:meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
> Rosemary
> > > Hackney
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 2:12 PM
> > > To: Ron Baalke; Meteorite Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iranian Fireball Was Of Geophysical
> Origin
> > >
> > > Is this similar to the Elma incident? Elma intrigues me. It looks
> like
> > > sand
> > > or particulate material having been fused. Perhaps was sucked up by
> a
> > > dust
> > > devil or other storm wind and electrical discharge in the
> atmosphere
> > > fused
> > > it like glass? Anyway.. is this Iranian material considered a
> > > geometeorite
> > > also?
> > >
> > > Rosie
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ron Baalke" <baalke_at_zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
> > > To: "Meteorite Mailing List" <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 11:38 AM
> > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Iranian Fireball Was Of Geophysical Origin
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.nojum.net/news/newse.asp?newsid=34
> > > >
> > > > PRESS-RELEASE: Feb 8, 2004
> > > > CONTACTS: Mr. Pouria Nazemi,
> > > > Tel: +98 (021) 827 0029
> > > > E mail : news_at_nojum.net
> > > >
> > > > INTERNATIONAL GROUP OF EXPERTS COMES TO CONCLUSION THAT THE
> FIREBALL
> > > > FALLEN ON THE IRANIAN TOWN OF BABOL ON JANUARY 2, 2004 WAS NOT A
> > > METEORITE,
> > > > BUT WAS OF GEOPHYSICAL ORIGIN
> > > >
> > > > On January 2, 2004 a report appeared about a meteorite fall on the
> > > town
> > > > of Babol, Iran. A group of Iranian experts associated with Nojum
> > > (Astronomy)
> > > > magazine began to investigate. The group consisted of Mr. Pouria
> > > Nazemi,
> > > who
> > > > has a large expertise in seeking scientific news and contacted
> many
> > > > organizations to collect more information and also a science
> > > journalist
> > > > (Mathematics BSc.), Miss Mohaddesseh Azimlu who was looking for
> > > physical
> > > > explanation for such events since the previous one in some months
> ago
> > > > (Physics Ms.)
> > > >
> > > > Mr. Iman Naderi, a serious amateur astronomer who didn't miss a
> moment
> > > to
> > > > reach the place and make early report and photos, Mr. Siavash
> > > Safarianpour
> > > > who organizes a daily live TV program in popular astronomy and Mr.
> > > Oshin
> > > > Zakarian, a nature and night sky photographer.
> > > >
> > > > Witnesses reported that the event started with seismic, and sound
> > > phenomena,
> > > > which were followed by unordinary light inside house and explosion
> > > with a
> > > > loud sound and ended by falling of a fireball which threw out
> sparks
> > > and
> > > was
> > > > described as a " suspended lightning "about 2 meters in diameter
> and
> > > > disappeared spontaneously. The boy who came out first and saw the
> ball
> > > had
> > > > burnt his face, but nobody else was hurt.
> > > >
> > > > Despite that the investigation continues, already now it is
> possible
> > > to
> > > > state that the event had nothing to do with a fall of an
> > > extraterrestrial
> > > > body, and evidently was of geophysical origin.
> > > >
> > > > Investigation of damage in the town caused by the event reveals
> that a
> > > > house, which was in the epicenter of the explosion, was badly
> damaged
> > > by
> > > the
> > > > explosion, and many houses within several hundred meters from it
> have
> > > some
> > > > minor damage. No traces of meteorite or any other object fallen
> were
> > > > discovered. The damage of the house partly was as caused by some
> > > energy
> > > > source inside the house, while possibility of a gas explosion etc.
> can
> > > be
> > > > excluded.
> > > >
> > > > After coming to conclusion that the event was caused neither by a
> > > > meteorite, nor by any known made object, the Iranian experts
> contacted
> > > > Dr. Andrei Ol'khovatov from Moscow, Russia.
> > > >
> > > > He has a special web-page ( http://olkhov.narod.ru/gr1997.htm ) ,
> > > devoted
> > > to
> > > > similar unexplained fireball falls, which have nothing to do with
> > > meteorite
> > > > falls, but are of geophysical origin. Dr. Ol'khovatov prefers to
> call
> > > them
> > > > geophysical meteors or just geometeors. According to him, these
> events
> > > are
> > > > poorly known, and little plausible physical mechanism was proposed
> for
> > > them
> > > > yet, but observational data points that geometeors in many aspects
> > > resemble
> > > > an energetic high-speed "ball-lightning". Anyway, a statistical
> > > analysis
> > > > conducted by Dr. Ol'khovatov revealed that geometeors have a
> tendency
> > > to
> > > > occur in some special geophysical situations.
> > > >
> > > > So Dr. Ol'khovatov has joined the group of Iranian researchers in
> > > > investigation of the Babol event. One of the tasks was to check
> > > whether
> > > > geophysical situation of the Babol event was favorable for
> geometeors,
> > > > especially in an aspect of cloudiness development in the region.
> It
> > > was
> > > > checked through satellite meteorological diagrams and however it
> > > didn't
> > > show
> > > > any cloud in the region, but starting changes in weather
> condition.
> > > >
> > > > The Babol fireball was neither the first nor the last one in Iran.
> > > Some
> > > > months ago Nojum received a report about observing a fire ball on
> May
> > > 23,
> > > > 2003 in Marzanabad, in North of Iran. It was in a rainy evening
> and
> > > big
> > > > thunders occurred continuously. Witnesses saw a high speed
> fireball
> > > hit
> > > two
> > > > old big trees, broke them with a very loud sound and continued its
> > > way.
> > > The
> > > > electricity broke in village for a few hours.
> > > >
> > > > On January 21, 2004 another fireball came to visit an Iranian
> village
> > > in
> > > > North West, near MeshkinShahr in Ardabil state. It was again a
> stormy
> > > night
> > > > that a white fireball, bigger than full moon appeared in the sky
> and
> > > after
> > > > few minutes disappeared. Simultaneously electricity broke in the
> whole
> > > area
> > > > for several hours and a house was damaged. A part of roof covering
> was
> > > > disappeared and a wall and door was broken with a loud sound.
> > > >
> > > > As both these two events have happened in stormy weather with
> thunders
> > > and
> > > > lightning, investigators come to conclude that they should be
> ordinary
> > > "ball
> > > > lightnings" that may be produced in such conditions. During
> natural
> > > > lightning a part of air molecules become ionized (which is called
> > > plasma)
> > > > and shine as a flash in a moment and come back to ordinary state
> (we
> > > saw
> > > it
> > > > as the path of lightning); but in rarely conditions that we still
> > > don't
> > > know
> > > > completely this plasma is caught in a ball shape and if hits
> anything
> > > may
> > > > release a lot of energy like a lightning with same loud sound and
> > > > destruction. We know very little about natural ball lightnings,
> but
> > > can
> > > make
> > > > them artificially in very small size in laboratory.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, the investigation continues, as those events and specially
> > > that
> > > one
> > > > in Babol gives a rare possibility to get a lot of data about such
> > > poorly
> > > > known meteorological or geophysical phenomena.
> > > >
> > > > Group members are also waiting for your reports about any similar
> > > > observations at news_at_nojum.net.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ______________________________________________
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> > > > Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> > > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
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Received on Fri 13 Feb 2004 02:09:01 PM PST