[meteorite-list] Amgala, Bensour, Zag Questions

From: Adam Hupe <adamhupe_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:31:15 2004
Message-ID: <02fd01c425ad$5631f120$ad971018_at_attbi.com>

Hi John, Christian and List,

Sorry it took so long to respond to some issues that are arising regarding
Amgala, Bensour and Zag. We have been extremely busy reorganizing our
collection in anticipation of moving so have been a little slow to respond
these days.

First off, everything we sold as Amgala is Amgala and not Zag and we stand
behind this 100%. We only mentioned Zag because another dealer who was
trying to get Amgala, got Zag instead. The situation has been rectified and
no Zag made it into the retail channel being sold as Amgala as far as we
know.

The second issue of Bensour not being named as a formal fall is because no
coordinates were provided to the NomCom. Witness statements were taken and
translated into English from several sources. These were scanned and
submitted to Dr. Jutta Zipfel who formally handled material from this region
for the NomCom. If somebody who as actually been to the Bensour region
wants to provide us with coordinates we will be happy to submit them to the
NomCom to complete its fall status. I know a few people have claimed to
have been there but when asked for coordinates, none were forthcoming.

And finally, coordinates and witness statements have been collected for
Amgala so formal fall status should be awarded without problem once
classification is completed.

All the best,

Adam and Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
Team LunarRock
IMCA 2185



----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Anger" <christian.anger_at_aon.at>
To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 6:24 AM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Main mass of Oum Dreyga (Amgala) recovered !


I am wondering if Oum Dreyga (Amgala) will be accepted by the Nomcom as a
witnessed fall.
As long as it is not confirmed to be a fall, it is still nothing other thing
than a find.

My personal opinion is, that it will be not accepted for 100%.

Just see the latest MetBull 88 what happened to Bensour.
It is listed as "found, possible fall"
Long faces in the collectors community - it was stated as a fall since it
appeared on the market.
And now ??? What is it - a hybrid ? Paid for a fall, got a "found, possible
fall".
And this took 2 years to find out. I think it is a solomonic decision of the
Nomcom.

And this is not the only one :
It was the same with NWA 820 (Hassi Labyade). The Nomcom did not accept it
as a fall.

Let's wait and see how much kgs really appear and if it will be a fall or
not.

Cheers,

Christian



IMCA #2673
www.austromet.com

Christian Anger
Korngasse 6
2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg
AUSTRIA

email: christian.anger_at_aon.at
________________________________________
Von: meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jeff
Kuyken
Gesendet: Freitag, 16. April 2004 14:57
An: Meteorite List
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Main mass of Oum Dreyga (Amgala) recovered !

Some interesting points raised about this new fall here. However:

1) I know of at least one other 1kg+ 'Amgala' being offered in Morocco at
the moment. Whatever it is, it's actually a very nice (& even more
expensive) specimen.

2) I don't think there will a huge drop in Amgala prices because there
doesn't seem to be enough weight. Certainly not as much as Bensour and Park
Forest.

3) Side by side, Zag and Amgala are quite different. I could be wrong here
but even the crust on Amgala seems a little more..... 'velvet-like' than
Zag.

Anyway, it's a very nice meteorite whatever it is! ;-)

Cheers,

Jeff Kuyken
I.M.C.A. #3085
www.meteorites.com.au

----- Original Message -----
From: j.divelbiss_at_att.net
To: thomasmeteorites_at_wanadoo.fr
Cc: philippe thomas ; meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com ; Adam Hupe
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Main mass of Oum Dreyga (Amgala) recovered !

Hello All,

Last month I reported on my first take of the Amgala individual I got from
the Hupe's that when cut sure looked like Zag to me. It being a small
individual of about 20 g, it is not easy to see a lot of detail in a end cut
of 2g...so I'm still not sure what I have.

The piece of Amgala I cut has a very nice blackened crust, and inside it had
both the blue-ish black lithology and the lighter brown H6-like material
I've seen on Zag. I do have some very nice crusted individuals of Zag whose
crust looked just as nice as the piece I received. Since then I've bought
and seen slices of Amgala that do look different than the first piece I
cut...the interior of the Amgala slice I got looked more "yellowish" inside
as if they are slightly oxidized. No significant breccia in my slice.
whereas the piece I cut myself did have some.

Did I buy a Zag that was freshly picked years ago and sold to the Hupe's as
Amgala...maybe??? I'll be home later tonight(12 plus hours from now) if
anyone wants to see a picture of my Amagala(Zag?) individual.

What I would like to see sent to the list today is someone's picture of a
fresh interior of Amgala that is not yellowed...if there is such a thing.

Curious now,

John



> Dear Adam and List Members,
>
> I can quite believe that the main mass of this meteorite is weighing over
2.5 kg
> (If it's the
> case, I ask to everybody to excuse me for the title of my first message)
but I
> have never
> heard about this piece and nobody has shown a picture of it.
>
> I know, of course, that this meteorite (Oum Dreyga/Amgala) is already
being
> studied at NAU,
> but as it often arrives, this meteorite will be analysed by several
> laboratories. I think that
> this is a good thing and that the comparison of different studies is
always rich
> in learnings.
>
> It's sure that it is an H chondrite, the exact type will be determinated
by the
> analyses.
>
> I can't believe that a professionnal can confuse a L chondrite with a H
> chondrite and a
> weathering grade 2 with a weathering grade 0.
>
> There is a lot of swindles in this stuff, and perhaps the ill-intentioned
people
> would like to
> sell Zag pieces for pieces of the new fall. But again, it's seems to me
really
> improbable to
> confuse them. Zag meteorite looks really special and is recognizable at
the
> first glance. Even
> the pieces recovered three or four years ago don't have the sight of a
meteorite
> which is on
> Earth since few months.
>
> The one who has had the fortune to handle some meteorites which fell on
Earth
> few times
> ago, known the « mint » appearance of them. This appearance can't be
confused
> with the
> ones which had been exposed to weathering for some times. I have had the
> occasion to
> handle a nice piece of Ben Sour recovered 15 months after the fall. This
piece
> was already
> affected by the desert varnish.
>
> Best Regards,
> Philippe
>
> > Dear Phillip and List,
> >
> > The main mass is larger than 2.5 kilograms and Amgala is currently being
> > studied at NAU which should release results soon. Three different type
> > specimens have been submitted and it looks like it will classify as an
> > H3.8
> > rare Polymict Breccia with exotic clasts. Be careful about find
> > location as
> > we reported the strewn field was between Amgala and Oum Dreyga the very
> > first post we made on the subject. An unrelated L5, W2 black
> > chondrite find
> > was being mixed in at first skewing the strewn field results. Also
> > some Zag
> > is reappearing and being sold as Amgala confusing the issue even more if
> > that is possible. After looking at several pieces of Amgala and Zag
> > it is
> > easy to tell them apart. Zag has some extremely dark lithologies, the
> > crust
> > is different and is a regolith breccia.
> >
> > Hope this helps clear up some confusion,
> >
> > The Hupe Collection
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "philippe thomas" <thomasmeteorites_at_wanadoo.fr>
> > To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 11:46 AM
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Main mass of Oum Dreyga (Amgala) recovered !
> >
> >
> > Dear List Members,
> >
> > Our team has recovered from a soldier from Western Sahara an amazing
> > oriented stone with
> > flow lines (99% crusted) weighing a little bit more of one kilo. This
> > stone
> > seems to be the
> > main mass of this fall.
> > Michèle Bourot-Denise, from the MNHN of Paris) is actually analysing a
> > sample of this fall
> > but it appears clearly that this is an ordinary H chondrite.
> >
> > Some dealers are using as provisional name for this fall « Amgala »,
> > but the
> > strewnfield is
> > closer to Oum Dreyga. Amgala is 250km far away.
> >
> > You can see this piece of Oum Dreyga in my website www.meteoritica.com
> >
> > Best Wishes
> > Philippe Thomas
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
>
>
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Received on Sun 18 Apr 2004 09:26:26 PM PDT