[meteorite-list] Re: New Asteroid Threat Seen (Asteroid 2003 QQ47)
From: Pekka Savolainen <pekka.savolainen_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:29:50 2004 Message-ID: <3F5761C2.5030505_at_dlc.fi> --------------070209040009010209040209 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, Bob and the list, thereīs no problem, astronomers say, the asteroid MAY hit the earth, the question is about the timing to say that an how to say that. Why canīt the british astronomers wait a day or two to get the correct data. This was the second time from the british sience-community to be in hurry. Simple question, what means to wait a day or two in silence and then give a correct and crystal-clear information. Why to give the preliminary data to the media, if all knows, what the result will be? In Finland the media at least has been trustworthy, and when my 8-years old or my 88-years old granpa watch the news, they belive, what they have been told. This is the difference between the british and the finnish media. Sure we today have some commercial TV-channels and 2 evening papers, which are ready to publish anything with no criticisim. When we are going to media-culture like that, the "media" seems not to be in response, what they are telling. I know, what the Torino-scale is, but 99% of public donīt, neither do the media. Thatīs why the authorities in science, in politics and so on have to watch, what they are saying. I have lost my hope with politicians, but think the scientific community should be a bit wiser... I still have my own opinions about several british astronomers and about the british media, sorry for that. Anyway, canīt help that, this was the second time, when the unchecked data was given out just by british astronomers. I can belive, one time can be an accident, but the second time is something else. If the media and the general public is unable to read english, the text to give out may be wise to format so, that also my 88-years granpa can underrstand it without knowledge about the Torino-scale and another scientific liturgy. I have no reason to criticize the skills of the british astronomers, just the way, these things are published. Iīm the member of the finnish astronomical association and the bolide-team, and I have had to correct some statements given by geophysicans etc... about the meteorites. Last time was in last winter, when a local geophysican found a hole on the ice, and wisely thoght, it was made by a meteorite. The astronomical association got the correction published in next 12 hours, but the "news" was allready in the international media, which was very annoying and made a lot of hard work just needless. Just when you get some serious articles out, cames some wise-guy and do this. This is the problem. When these things have been done often enough, nobody belives the serious scientists, when they have something real to tell. I can aggree with you, usually the articles published are full of errors. In this case the local geophysican made clear, the meteorite sized about 50 grams can make large damage, the meteorite can make a hole on the upper layer of the ice, but leave the lower layer intact and then just disappear and so on...this hole was made by the flooding water, and that was clear to me, when I saw the first pictures from the area. So, usually the mass-media donīt have enough knowledge to write this kind of articles in the correct way, I aggree also this. What I donīt aggree, is to give out data, which is questonable and makes these speculations possible. If the scientific community canīt make these things clear to the media, this show goes on and on. The problem is not the astronomers, the problem is not the media. The problem is between them. A good astronomer is not every time the best person in communication. The way to handle this is to have a professional, who knows the way, the media works. To write an article to a scientific publication is absolutely different thing than give the information to the evening press about the possible smasher. These are just my opinions, and I donīt want to hurt anybody, but as I have been said, this is now the second time, the british astronomers give information, the british media starts the circus and NASA makes the corrections... best regards, pekka s Bob Martino wrote: >No, no, no, no, no. > >Sorry, Pekka, but I must stand up now for my OTHER fraternal group, the >Astronomical Community. > >It is not true that astronomers said an asteroid WOULD hit earth in the next >ten years. They said that it MAY hit earth. A very big difference and not a >subtle one either. Yet the press and the general public seems to be unable >to grasp the difference. This is nothing AT ALL like a hoax! It is the >simple >presentation of facts to a public that has trouble reading an English >sentence >and extracting the plain, simple meaning. > >Every few years we see another "Killer Asteroid" story in the press. Each >and every time a reputable astronomer said what was EXACTLY THE TRUTH, only >to be misquoted and distorted by the media. > >I remember a particular instance that was perhaps 3 or 4 years ago. The >orbital data indicated that in a few years the asteroid would pass >particularly close to Earth. In fact, the uncertainty of the measurements to >date placed Earth within the possible orbital path (i.e. collision was >POSSIBLE). The press went nuts. Very soon thereafter, additional data was >uncovered because the asteroid in question had been inadvertently imaged >about 10 years earlier. With this additional data point the uncertainty of >the orbit shrank and there was shown to be no possibility of collision. The >astronomer was VILIFIED in the press for "crying wolf", even though he had >done no such thing. (It was the PRESS that cried wolf, but of course they >wouldn't vilify themselves, would they?) What the astronomer did was exactly >the correct thing to do. He published his PRELIMINARY results, and asked for >more data. When more data became available, he re-worked the calculations >and published updated orbital elements with more precise error bars. For >this he was raked over the coals by newspaper reporters who wouldn't know an >asteroid from their own..... well, you get the idea. > >As former Assistant Director of a semi-public observatory, I have had a >great deal of experience in dealing with the little "brush fires" created >when a scientifically illiterate press tells astronomical stories to an even >more scientifically illiterate general public. (No, sorry, Mars WILL NOT >appear as big as the full Moon tonight !!) In fact, every time I read a >story in the press about a subject that I know something about (Physics, >Astronomy, Mathematics, Meteoritics) 80% of the time I find glaring factual >errors. > >Which makes me very careful when I read a story about what's happening in >places like Iraq... > >----- >Bob Martino, Tucson, AZ > >Can you really name a star? Read the Truth! >http://home.columbus.rr.com/starfaq/ >. > >>Message: 7 >>Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 20:23:43 +0300 >>From: Pekka Savolainen <pekka.savolainen_at_dlc.fi> >>To: tracy latimer <daistiho_at_hotmail.com> >>Cc: meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com >>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Asteroid Threat Seen (Asteroid 2003 >> >QQ47) > >> >>Hello, all, >> >>well, I have my own opinions about the british astronomers. Not an >>year ago they told, and asteroid will hit earth in next 10 years. At least >>one TV-channell here was ignorant enough to publish this. Itīs not very >>nice to try to explain to your 8-years, that itīs just a hoax. NASA made >>a correction to aslo this next day. >> >>Itīs sure, the press and the news (particulary british) will publish >>everything, >>if astro-somebody is willing to paint some global catastrophes. Think >>this is >>more serious problem than all hoaxes with meteorites and geo-somethings >>from the local high schools. So NASA and also others have a lot to do... >> >>So great work, Ron, thank you for that. >> >>take care, >> >>pekka >> > > > > > >______________________________________________ >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: eurocoin_at_smartgroups.com --------------070209040009010209040209 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <html> <head> </head> <body> <br> Hello, Bob and the list,<br> <br> there´s no problem, astronomers say, the asteroid MAY hit the earth, the <br> question is about the timing to say that an how to say that.<br> <br> Why can´t the british astronomers wait a day or two to get the correct <br> data. This was the second time from the british sience-community to be <br> in hurry. <br> <br> Simple question, what means to wait a day or two in silence and then give<br> a correct and crystal-clear information. Why to give the preliminary data <br> to the media, if all knows, what the result will be?<br> <br> In Finland the media at least has been trustworthy, and when my 8-years old<br> or my 88-years old granpa watch the news, they belive, what they have <br> been told. This is the difference between the british and the finnish media.<br> Sure we today have some commercial TV-channels and 2 evening papers, <br> which are ready to publish anything with no criticisim. <br> <br> When we are going to media-culture like that, the "media" seems not to be<br> in response, what they are telling. I know, what the Torino-scale is, but 99%<br> of public don´t, neither do the media. That´s why the authorities in science, <br> in politics and so on have to watch, what they are saying. I have lost my hope<br> with politicians, but think the scientific community should be a bit wiser...<br> <br> I still have my own opinions about several british astronomers and about the<br> british media, sorry for that. Anyway, can´t help that, this was the second time,<br> when the unchecked data was given out just by british astronomers. I can <br> belive, one time can be an accident, but the second time is something else. If the<br> media and the general public is unable to read english, the text to give out may be<br> wise to format so, that also my 88-years granpa can underrstand it without <br> knowledge about the Torino-scale and another scientific liturgy.<br> <br> I have no reason to criticize the skills of the british astronomers, just the way, these<br> things are published. I´m the member of the finnish astronomical association and the<br> bolide-team, and I have had to correct some statements given by geophysicans etc...<br> about the meteorites. Last time was in last winter, when a local geophysican found a<br> hole on the ice, and wisely thoght, it was made by a meteorite. The astronomical <br> association got the correction published in next 12 hours, but the "news" was allready<br> in the international media, which was very annoying and made a lot of hard work just<br> needless. Just when you get some serious articles out, cames some wise-guy and do<br> this. This is the problem. When these things have been done often enough, nobody <br> belives the serious scientists, when they have something real to tell. <br> <br> I can aggree with you, usually the articles published are full of errors. In this case<br> the local geophysican made clear, the meteorite sized about 50 grams can make large<br> damage, the meteorite can make a hole on the upper layer of the ice, but leave the lower<br> layer intact and then just disappear and so on...this hole was made by the flooding water,<br> and that was clear to me, when I saw the first pictures from the area. <br> <br> So, usually the mass-media don´t have enough knowledge to write this kind of articles<br> in the correct way, I aggree also this. What I don´t aggree, is to give out data, which is<br> questonable and makes these speculations possible. If the scientific community can´t <br> make these things clear to the media, this show goes on and on.<br> <br> The problem is not the astronomers, the problem is not the media. The problem is between<br> them. A good astronomer is not every time the best person in communication. The way<br> to handle this is to have a professional, who knows the way, the media works. To write<br> an article to a scientific publication is absolutely different thing than give the information <br> to the evening press about the possible smasher.<br> <br> These are just my opinions, and I don´t want to hurt anybody, but as I have been said, this<br> is now the second time, the british astronomers give information, the british media starts <br> the circus and NASA makes the corrections...<br> <br> <br> best regards,<br> <br> pekka s<br> <br> <br> <br> Bob Martino wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:006b01c372a1$808b74b0$0300000a_at_TheMonolith"> <pre wrap="">No, no, no, no, no.<br><br>Sorry, Pekka, but I must stand up now for my OTHER fraternal group, the<br>Astronomical Community.<br><br>It is not true that astronomers said an asteroid WOULD hit earth in the next<br>ten years. They said that it MAY hit earth. A very big difference and not a<br>subtle one either. Yet the press and the general public seems to be unable<br>to grasp the difference. This is nothing AT ALL like a hoax! It is the<br>simple<br>presentation of facts to a public that has trouble reading an English<br>sentence<br>and extracting the plain, simple meaning.<br><br>Every few years we see another "Killer Asteroid" story in the press. Each<br>and every time a reputable astronomer said what was EXACTLY THE TRUTH, only<br>to be misquoted and distorted by the media.<br><br>I remember a particular instance that was perhaps 3 or 4 years ago. The<br>orbital data indicated that in a few years the asteroid would pass<br>particularly close to Earth. In fa ct, the uncertainty of the measurements to<br>date placed Earth within the possible orbital path (i.e. collision was<br>POSSIBLE). The press went nuts. Very soon thereafter, additional data was<br>uncovered because the asteroid in question had been inadvertently imaged<br>about 10 years earlier. With this additional data point the uncertainty of<br>the orbit shrank and there was shown to be no possibility of collision. The<br>astronomer was VILIFIED in the press for "crying wolf", even though he had<br>done no such thing. (It was the PRESS that cried wolf, but of course they<br>wouldn't vilify themselves, would they?) What the astronomer did was exactly<br>the correct thing to do. He published his PRELIMINARY results, and asked for<br>more data. When more data became available, he re-worked the calculations<br>and published updated orbital elements with more precise error bars. For<br>this he was raked over the coals by newspaper reporters who wouldn't know an<br>asteroid fro m their own..... well, you get the idea.<br><br>As former Assistant Director of a semi-public observatory, I have had a<br>great deal of experience in dealing with the little "brush fires" created<br>when a scientifically illiterate press tells astronomical stories to an even<br>more scientifically illiterate general public. (No, sorry, Mars WILL NOT<br>appear as big as the full Moon tonight !!) In fact, every time I read a<br>story in the press about a subject that I know something about (Physics,<br>Astronomy, Mathematics, Meteoritics) 80% of the time I find glaring factual<br>errors.<br><br>Which makes me very careful when I read a story about what's happening in<br>places like Iraq...<br><br>-----<br>Bob Martino, Tucson, AZ<br><br>Can you really name a star? Read the Truth!<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://home.columbus.rr.com/starfaq/">http://home.columbus.rr.com/starfaq/</a><br>.<br><br></pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Message: 7<br>Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 20:23:43 +0300<br>From: Pekka Savolainen <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pekka.savolainen_at_dlc.fi"><pekka.savolainen@dlc.fi></a><br>To: tracy latimer <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:daistiho@hotmail.com"><daistiho@hotmail.com></a><br>Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com">meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com</a><br>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Asteroid Threat Seen (Asteroid 2003<br></pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!---->QQ47)<br></pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap=""><br>Hello, all,<br><br>well, I have my own opinions about the british astronomers. Not an<br>year ago they told, and asteroid will hit earth in next 10 years. At least<br>one TV-channell here was ignorant enough to publish this. It´s not very<br>nice to try to explain to your 8-years, that it´s just a hoax. NASA made<br>a correction to aslo this next day.<br><br>It´s sure, the press and the news (particulary british) will publish<br>everything,<br>if astro-somebody is willing to paint some global catastrophes. Think<br>this is<br>more serious problem than all hoaxes with meteorites and geo-somethings<br>from the local high schools. So NASA and also others have a lot to do...<br><br>So great work, Ron, thank you for that.<br><br>take care,<br><br>pekka<br><br></pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!----><br><br><br><br><br>______________________________________________<br>Meteorite-list mailing list<br><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com">Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com</a><br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list">http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list</a><br><br></pre> </blockquote> <br> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="$mailwrapcol">-- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin">http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin</a> Group Email Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:eurocoin_at_smartgroups.com">eurocoin@smartgroups.com</a> </pre> <br> </body> </html> --------------070209040009010209040209--Received on Thu 04 Sep 2003 12:01:06 PM PDT |
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