[meteorite-list] Re: [MeteoriteCollectors] BS AD: 20%offeverything on ...

From: Martin <Martin_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:28:23 2004
Message-ID: <007101c38dd7$7a19c4a0$e1e850d9_at_9y6y40j>

Hi Michael,

But there aren't so much real "Blow Out" sales announced on this list, nor
on the yahoo-groups, nor on the webpages of the dealers.
Like so many others I would be glad to find cheap material, but in fact in
the last 3 years I bought only three times from those socalled
opportunities. Once a real cheap rough specimen of Jilin from B.Y, another
one, which I can't remember (I think it was from M.H.), and I have to
confess some days ago the Allende from Cottingham, but only because I have a
client, waiting for such a piece.

In fact those postings are only labelled as "Blow Out" or Super Sales.
Of course in most cases the prices are lower than those on the websites of
F., E., B. (no war please!) and others, but in most cases, they are no real
bargains and hit only the average prices for each locality. Especially
Cottinghams offers are in a few cases even higher than the average.

In general and in long terms spoken, I value the market movements a little
bit different than you in your articles in the MeteoriteTimes.
I started collecting as a boy in the mid 80ies. Of course those were the
Good Ol'Times, meteorite collecting was something very special, the prices
were low (and I had no money...) - but golden the times were not all (no
possibility to compare the prices, less localities available..).
Until the end of the 90ies, prices were quite stable, then some new
localities became available and some became cheaper because of the opening
in the East, but very soon the internet got more and more popular and the
paradox phenomen occured, that the meteorite prices instead of going down
because of the larger competition and availability, were increasing
dramatacally! Perhaps because with this new media meteorites became much
more popular and thus the demand was growing.
Many of my clients reported me the same observation in other field of
collections (fossils, numismatics, antiquities..).
Finally meteorites became so expensive, that I was forced to start dealing,
to refinanciate my collection.

So I feel not so pity for the price crashes in the last time - I see well
that it has nothing to do with a normalization of the market (like this:
first cheap then very expensive now normal), because due to ebay and other
factors it's now a complete different situation. It's a larger matket now,
but still a very small niche market, reacting very sensible.
O.k. the most classical localities weren't afflicted by the crashes and
remained unchanged high in price,
others mainly the common "bulk" classics like Sikhote, Campo, Canyon ect.
which are sold by everyone seemed to have found there final place not before
the very recent times and that those times, were the Labennes could sell
there new ordinary chondrite desert finds in the 90ies at 1.5/g or higher
wouldn't last for ever, was from the beginning on evident.

Different thing are the rare types and of course it's extremely cruel for an
collector to see his DaG262 or 400 for which he paid his 20.000/g years ago,
going on ebay at only 1000/g. Or Rumurutis first 150 now 20 and many others
too.
But in my eyes it's also a fault of the dealers. If a single seller started
to dump a rare type, why all others are so panicked? I remembered well last
year (or was it 2 years ago, as times goes buy), when the first started to
sell his lunars below 5000/g immediately all dealers became hysteric and
start to throw their Moons away, egal what for losses, competing each other
and throwing away the stuff as it would be a hot potato at 1000/g, instead
to stay calm, to wait a time until the price recovers or even to buy.
Well, perhaps not such a fine example, because someone starts to dump moon
again ( uh I can feel that again such a hysteria will take place) or perhaps
an ideal example because Moon is limited in weight, there aren't tons
available, so that you will be able to observe how fast or whether at all
the prices will recover again.

Of course it's also not fine for dealers, when others start to throw away
there stuff below there own buying prices (in german ebay there is such an
enthusiast..), but why always those overreactions?
Only because someone throws so much Kainsaz in ebay, that it got's only
5/g - should I reduce my Kainsaz down to 5/g too? Or my Colony? Nobody will
force me - I will wait until that guy has sold his stuff and the prices will
raise, I even will buy his Kainsaz, when it's so cheap.

It's in the personal responsibility of a dealer to have a diversified
assortment of different meteorites to minimate the risk and for not being so
extremely dependend on only a few localities.
A rare desert type, a rare class, or a locality just newly appearing on the
market is always more risky than an observed fall or a classic locality. Of
course it makes no sense to sell the rare stuff so cheap as it happened in
recent times, but isn't it better then just to wait and not to join the
dumpings?
Or to keep the relativity, do you think only because some desert eucrites,
diogenites, LL3s ect. are sold on ebay for a few $/g, the classic meteorites
will crash too. Allende for 0,10/g? Esquell 2$/g?
I don't think so.
And another aspect, the price dropping of let's say Bilanga, Park Forest,
Bensour, Taza and similars is not caused by a general price dropping or by
dumping or by ebay - those were just novelties and always many collectors
want to have smth. brand new or fear to miss a chance and after the hype is
over, those meteorites find their more realistic and stable price.

>From the collector's view, it's a paradise now and I don't believe, that
they hesitate to buy, waiting if it will getting more cheaper, on contrary
they would hesitate more, if the dealers would made comittments to keep the
prices high.

Ebay is not the worst thing - many people get there first contact with
meteoritics through ebay. The number of collectors is growing, which
benefits also the non-ebay sellers. Some are buying from ebay and resale the
stuff to refinanciate their collections - also not a bad thing, because with
their resales they keep the price level higher than in ebay. And if some
dealers don't make anymore 200-400% profit on a locality, but only 100% then
it's still more than in other branches and all in all more healthy for the
market, the collectors and the competition.

This is just my opinion and with this opinion I don't want to insult no
member from this list.
Cheers!

Martin A.

PS: Of course it is not so romantic anymore to collect meteorites as it was
in former times...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael L Blood" <mlblood_at_cox.net>
To: "Martin Altmann" <Altmann_at_Meteorite-Martin.de>;
<meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re: [MeteoriteCollectors] BS AD:
20%offeverything on ...


> on 10/8/03 11:07 AM, Martin Altmann at Altmann_at_Meteorite-Martin.de wrote:
>
> > I'm talking about the collecor's prices, not of the bulk trader prices
or
> > dealer's prices or singular "Blow Out" sales,
> -------
> Hi Martin,
> That is just the point - I AM talking about these "blow out"
sales.
> I THOUGHT I made my post quite clear!? It is not whether prices
> are high or low - it is the inconsistency that causes conflict for both
> collectors and dealers.
> Sincerely, Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.costofwar.com/
> --
> Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer
> in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is
> taht frist and lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl
> mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we
> do not raed ervey lteter by itslef but the wrod as a wlohe.
> --
> SUPPORT OUR TROUPS:
> http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html
> --
> Worth Seeing:
> - Earth at night from satellite:
> http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg
> - Interactive Lady Liberty:
> http://doody36.home.attbi.com/liberty.htm
> - Earth - variety of choices:
> http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html
> --
> Panoramic view of Meteor Crater:
>
http://www.virtualguidebooks.com/Arizona/GrandCanyonRoute66/MeteorCrater/Met
> eorCraterRimL.html
> --
> Cool Calendar & Clock:
> http://www.yugop.com/ver3/stuff/03/fla.html
> --
> Michael Blood Meteorites & Didgeridoos for sale at:
> http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/
>
>
>
Received on Wed 08 Oct 2003 04:04:58 PM PDT