[meteorite-list] Barringer Meteor $$$$

From: Tom aka James Knudson <knudson911_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:25:37 2004
Message-ID: <00d501c315ea$0c0b3ee0$cfc543d8_at_malcolm>

Hello List, I have a question. If a new meteorite hit tomorrow and made a
new crater on federal land, could someone stake a claim and end up with the
new crater?
Thanks, Tom
The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Schoner <steve_schoner_at_yahoo.com>
To: <MeteorHntr_at_aol.com>; <thebigcollector@msn.com>;
<knudson911_at_frontiernet.net>; <mlblood@cox.net>; <StarHarvest@aol.com>;
<meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Barringer Meteor $$$$


> --- MeteorHntr_at_aol.com wrote:
> > Hello steve_schoner_at_yahoo.com,
> >
> > In reference to your comment:
> >
> > è "Why is this crater not owned by the Government
> > and
> > è preserved under the National Park Service?
> >
> > Why? Maybe because they pay a lot of sales,
> > property and income taxes to
> > their county and state governments.
> >
> > I would never accuse any one of paying officials
> > under the table, yet it is
> > funny how alleged meteorite poachers are treated up
> > there when caught. I
> > call them "alleged meteorite poachers" since I don't
> > think anyone has EVER
> > been convicted of hunting or removing meteorites
> > from the Crater area.
> > Charges are made, but they always seem to get
> > mysteriously dropped before the
> > cases get to court. As Schoner would say "Humm...."
> >
> > Oh, I think the Barringer's pay off (excuse me, I
> > meant to day "donate" to)
> > the Meteoritical Society a couple of thousand
> > dollars a year don't they?
> >
> > You know, my guess is that the real reason that the
> > crater makes, what over
> > 1,000,000 visitors a year times $14 each minus their
> > huge (couple hundred
> > thousand dollar) overhead expenses plus gift shop
> > revenues is because there
> > hasn't been a big enough stink made to the right
> > government officials.
> >
> > It seems that Schoner in the past has done a bit of
> > effort, but maybe the
> > people who read his letters just don't care enough
> > to do something about it.
> > And if they are complaining to local politicians who
> > might have personal
> > agendas to do favors for the Barringers, then those
> > are not the politicians
> > one should be talking to. Maybe contacting a
> > non-incumbant person running
> > for that particular congress seat BEFORE they get
> > elected might be worth
> > while.
> >
> > Maybe those of us on the list that feel passionate
> > about this could all right
> > our respective congressmen and women. If there was
> > actually a little bit of
> > money that could be raised, a well placed billboard
> > in the region (like on
> > that long road up to the Crater) might be cost
> > efficient. Maybe with a
> > website "www.FreeTheCrater.com" printed on it.
> >
> > Not that Geoff Notkin would want to do anything in
> > the way of a "write your
> > congressman" campaign (I would never want to commit
> > him to such a project
> > without him volunteering himself) but if he did,
> > there is no one in the world
> > that I have ever met that has been able to do 1/10
> > of what he has been able
> > to do in the past when it comes to getting the
> > written complaint letters to
> > the right people to get amazing things changed.
> >
> > Anyway, just my 2 grams of shale oxides worth...
> >
> > Steve
> >
>
> Steve,
>
> Everything you have said is right on the money (pun
> intended).
>
> Something needs to be done, and it's time that
> Congress re-examines the 1872 Mining Act, possibly
> eliminating it altogether or at least amending it to
> give the "people" of this so called "land of the free"
> the right to determine whether a site warrants
> protection beyond what the 1872 Mining Act provides.
> (Which is no protection at all)
>
> That Meteor Crater is a Natural Treasure, there can be
> no doubt.
>
> It was instrumental in bringing to the attention of
> scientists world wide that asteroids do strike the
> earth. And in subsequent research it provided insight
> into the actual processes involved. Dr. Shoemaker
> earned his PhD in studying the crater before his later
> work at USGS. Then USGS sent teams of astronaughts
> out there to study the crater so that they would have
> a better understanding of what they would see on the
> moon.
>
> The crater has a history, both in the Old West and the
> New, and it is of utmost scientific importance in that
> it is the most recent crater of size on the earth.
>
> All this said, what is being done with it?
>
> Talk about preservation?
>
> Bar T Bar had the audacity to create a "secondary"
> crater a short distance away from the south side of
> the real crater to water cows.
>
> The Park Service or any other overseeing government
> agency would never allow that. As it is now it
> compromises the stratigraphy of the crater, and also
> ruins its visual appeal. Also, with regards to
> scientific research, government controls are by far
> better that the rigor maroe that Bar-T-Bar-Meteor
> Crater Enterprises put me through. Ten years of red
> tape, demands that I approach institutions, and
> individuals of renown to gain their support, all with
> the intention that I would give up and go away. But
> all the while... "poachers" whoever they are, go out
> and pick specimens up and sell them "under the table."
> The government would never allow these abuses to go on
> if they had not given the "mining rights" away.
>
> And the court cases that they inflict on the
> "poachers" that they have arrested... You are right
> on! Not one of these has ever made it to court. It
> legal harassment. They have done it time and time
> again, but do not take even one case all the way.
> Just the threat is enough, and legal costs to keep
> un-authorized persons at bay, and keep them from
> "mining" meteorites from public lands surrounding the
> crater.
>
> There is nothing to be mined there. There is no load
> of meteorites in the crater or outside of it. Just
> individual fragments and vapor products scattered far
> and wide across the desert. And in the history of the
> crater, Dr. Nininger proved it when he found metallic
> sphereoids confirming that Dr. Moulton's previous
> prediction that the meteorite was vaporized on impact.
> Dr. Shoemaker in his PhD. thesis elaborated on the
> processes of crater formation expanding the process to
> all major cratering events, showing exactly how the
> process unfolded to produce what is seen in impact
> craters
>
> Meteor Crater is an archetype for all cratering events
> world wide. The popular, and scientific history of
> the site is secure, and it is certainly more than just
> a hole in the ground.
>
> It is not a "mine" for meteorite "resources," and
> never will be.
>
> It is a historic, scientific National Treasure, as it
> should be; rather than a site to mine people's
> pockets, as it now is.
>
> $10 to $20 per/person ?
>
> See any National Park for much less, and get a great
> amount of correct interpretation of the site as well.
>
>
> Steve Schoner
> http://www.geocities.com/meteorite_identification
>
>
>
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Received on Fri 09 May 2003 01:15:43 AM PDT