[meteorite-list] Elma Status?

From: Tom aka James Knudson <knudson911_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:16:30 2004
Message-ID: <005701c35d01$6083b2a0$4ac643d8_at_malcolm>

Hello List, Mike wrote;
", I am simply offended by people wasting
scientific time with nonsense, especially now when it can take years to get
a simple classification."

I have to agree with mike here. Adam and Greg said this was not a meteorite
in the beginning, and I think they would know! But, I for one, have been
chastised big time for posting OT things to the list. There was not a fall
in Elma and the things the people from Elma are claiming to meteorites are
not meteorites and in my opinion have no place on the list. I am interested
in the end result, but until then, I think we should save Art some bandwidth
on this subject.

Thanks, Tom
Peregrineflier <><
The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Farmer <farmerm_at_concentric.net>
To: Adam Hupe <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>
Cc: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?


> Ok Adam, tell us all, where did you get your science degree? Oh I forgot,
> you have none, so please stop playing scientist.
> I don't have a closed mind, I am simply offended by people wasting
> scientific time with nonsense, especially now when it can take years to
get
> a simple classification.
> Mike Farmer
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adam Hupe" <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>
> To: "Michael Farmer" <farmerm_at_concentric.net>
> Cc: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 1:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
>
>
> > Hey Mike and Dear List,
> >
> > Ex and current NASA scientist know the difference between tar and glass.
> > Maybe you should have an open mind because you would be blown away by
the
> > lab results if you truly understood mineralogy. This is definitely not
> tar,
> > only somebody with a closed mind and no understanding of chemistry would
> > make such a statement, go back to school.
> >
> > Adam
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Farmer" <farmerm_at_concentric.net>
> > To: "Charles R. Viau" <cviau_at_beld.net>; "'Adam Hupe'"
> > <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>; <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 8:14 PM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> >
> >
> > > Well, It CANNOT be a tekite, tektites are made by large impacts
melting
> > the
> > > impacted rock. these were found in a telephone pole! My god, every
> > telephone
> > > pole I have ever seen is covered in tar or whatever weird melted black
> > stuff
> > > they use, sort of like tar on house roofs, which I believe that the
> Hupes
> > > also "found" in the debris from my printer-smashing Park Forest. HMMMM
> > tiny
> > > little melted tektites found on the floor under the smashed shingles
and
> > > tarred roof, more little melted glass like "tektites" found in and
round
> a
> > > telephone pole at the site of a stupid hoax that got way more
attention
> > than
> > > it should have. I see a curious pattern forming here. Maybe there
were
> > some
> > > "bugs" smashed into the tar so we have little "spidy" creatures like
the
> > > Frass meteorite.
> > > Charles. I have never heard of you, but I assure you that I
know
> > just
> > > a tad more than you might think, and I assure you that this is a waste
> of
> > > scientific time.
> > > It defies the most simple things that we know about meteorites, thus
> > making
> > > it bogus.
> > >
> > > Mike Farmer
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Charles R. Viau" <cviau_at_beld.net>
> > > To: "'Michael Farmer'" <farmerm_at_concentric.net>; "'Adam Hupe'"
> > > <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>; <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 7:35 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > >
> > >
> > > > Given the reputation of the people examining this stuff, how busy
they
> > > > are, and the amount of time they are willing to spend on this - It's
> not
> > > > crap. It is probably more related to a tektite than anything else if
> one
> > > > were to summon up a simile , and how did pieces of this wind up
> embedded
> > > > in a telephone pole? - I think the Hupe brothers , as well as the
> PhD's
> > > > in those labs are doing their job because they believe there is
> > > > scientific merit in doing so, and no matter what the outcome, they
> need
> > > > to know what it is because it passed through the filters that would
> have
> > > > tossed 'crap' out 2 weeks ago. Perhaps, if you had some of this
stuff
> > > > you might feel different.
> > > >
> > > > Charlyv
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com
> > > > [mailto:meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
> Michael
> > > > Farmer
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 7:35 PM
> > > > To: Adam Hupe; meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > > >
> > > > Give me a break people, this is retarded. Yep, YE HAA PA saw that
> there
> > > > little glass chunks fall out of the sky and they burnded my hands
two
> > > > weeks
> > > > later!
> > > > Why waste time on this crap.
> > > > Mike Farmer
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Adam Hupe" <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>
> > > > To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:26 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Tom,
> > > > >
> > > > > No glass manufacturing process would use this kind of sand because
> of
> > > > it
> > > > > impurities and why would glass be spread into a shot-put pit where
> > > > kids
> > > > > could get cut on the sharp edges? I am not going to speculate too
> > > > much
> > > > more
> > > > > until we get more lab results. Two other labs have weighed in on
> this
> > > > > occurrence and it just keeps getting odder.
> > > > >
> > > > > All the best,
> > > > >
> > > > > Adam
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <knudson911_at_frontiernet.net>
> > > > > To: "Adam Hupe" <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>;
> > > > > <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:17 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hello All, How about a glass manufacturing bi-product?
> > > > > > Thanks, Tom
> > > > > > Peregrineflier <><
> > > > > > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Adam Hupe <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>
> > > > > > To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:08 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Tom and List,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The problem with this material is that it does not contain any
> > > > metal.
> > > > > If
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > was in a reducing environment why isn't there any metal, even
at
> > > > > > microprobe
> > > > > > > levels? This almost certainly eliminates this material coming
> > > > from an
> > > > > > > industrial process, at least none that I have ever heard of.
If
> > > > it
> > > > came
> > > > > > > from a foundry why wasn't the sand melted in the center. The
> sand
> > > > is
> > > > > also
> > > > > > > trapped in sealed vesicles, that look almost like chondrules,
> like
> > > > a
> > > > > > > condensation product, which is extremely odd. It was
extremely
> > > > > difficult
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > make thin-sections of this stuff because of the friability of
> the
> > > > > material
> > > > > > > trapped inside.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Will update as we get more results,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Adam
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <knudson911_at_frontiernet.net>
> > > > > > > To: "mafer" <mafer_at_imagineopals.com>; "Adam Hupe"
> > > > <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>
> > > > > > > Cc: "meteor central" <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:39 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hello All, This Elma stuff sounds like a metal casting
> > > > bi-product
> > > > from
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > foundry. Is there a foundry in our around Elma?
> > > > > > > > Thanks, Tom
> > > > > > > > Peregrineflier <><
> > > > > > > > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: mafer <mafer_at_imagineopals.com>
> > > > > > > > To: Adam Hupe <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>
> > > > > > > > Cc: meteor central <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:30 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > fulguritic? given a sighting of a smoking trail and
> smoldering
> > > > > pieces
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > "basaltic" glass with sand inside, sounds like some
> > > > atmospheric
> > > > > event
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > From: Adam Hupe <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>
> > > > > > > > > To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:22 PM
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, Mike and List,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The Elma material is definitely not a meteorite, so to
> > > > speak.
> > > > It
> > > > > > > could
> > > > > > > > > > prove to be just as or more interesting to the
scientific
> > > > > community.
> > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > jury is still out on exactly what this material is or
how
> it
> > > > was
> > > > > > > > created.
> > > > > > > > > > The initial lab results created more questions than
> answers.
> > > > As
> > > > > has
> > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > > reported this material consist of sand incased in a
> basaltic
> > > > glass
> > > > > > > > shell.
> > > > > > > > > > The materials in the glass are not separated into swirls
> so
> > > > what
> > > > > > ever
> > > > > > > > > > created these objects had a huge amount of energy and
the
> > > > glass
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > quenched
> > > > > > > > > > very rapidly. Experiments are being conducted to see how
> > > > these
> > > > > might
> > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > been created. We should have more answers by next week.
> > > > This
> > > > is
> > > > > > > > looking
> > > > > > > > > > more like an X-files episode than a meteor sighting.
For
> > > > now,
> > > > we
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > keeping an open mind regarding this material.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > All the best,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Adam and Greg Hupe
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > From: "Michael Farmer" <farmerm_at_concentric.net>
> > > > > > > > > > To: "Mike Groetz" <mpg444_at_yahoo.com>; "Meteorite List"
> > > > > > > > > > <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:35 PM
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Mike, forget about this one, there is not a chance in
> hell
> > > > that
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > meteorite
> > > > > > > > > > > was recovered there.
> > > > > > > > > > > Mike Farmer
> > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > > From: "Mike Groetz" <mpg444_at_yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > To: "Meteorite List"
> <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:35 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Everyone-
> > > > > > > > > > > > Is this all said and done with or is the jury
still
> > > > > > > > > > > > out with any maybe's?
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > > > > >
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Received on Thu 07 Aug 2003 12:31:36 PM PDT