[meteorite-list] Bessey comment
From: John Divelbiss <j.divelbiss_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:08:22 2004 Message-ID: <000f01c25545$d37ec480$37005a0c_at_0m824> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C25524.4B2E3BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ron and associates, =20 Greetings. First off, I know you have along distinguished career in this = arena and I wish to not offend you and others who have given so much to = this great interest of many. My frustration is the long list of Sahara and NWA numbers that do not = have official classifications including weights, etc. As Mark Mafer = suggested there must be ways to help this process out by using a simpler = method of classification for ordinary chondrites. It would not be the = full blown method, but a reduced method that at least would = label/categorize many of the unknowns. Is that possible? Make it a = special label as "probable" or something like that. I can make guesses, = but I'm sure my accuracy would be poor. I believe Dean when he says he has tried with difficulty to get = classifications. Maybe at this point(due to frustration) he is just = passing the burden on to others to keep his business going. Is it a lack = of effort or is there one big roadblock, that only opens for the = achondrites and the #3 chondrites. I don't know...but what I do know is = that the list of official meteorites is short compared to the amount of = material out there. As for the article, yes I read it this week and it sounds very simple to = get a #. Who would someone like me contact, and what are the odds of = getting a classification? A number without official (even if probable) = classification is not helpful in my opinion. I mean if I go to the = trouble of sending in something, only to end up with a number...what is = the point? I can label it I guess. I will try myself in near future to get a classification on an = unknown...and report back with my experience.=20 Thanx Ron for your interest, John ----- Original Message -----=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: meteorite1.com=20 To: John Divelbiss ; Bernd Pauli HD ; Radosevich, Dave=20 Cc: meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com=20 Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 8:48 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bessey comment John Divelbiss wrote: <<I read an article written in May by fellow list member Norbert = Classen that discusses this issue from another field collectors point of view. I = totally agree and hope others will come forward to help this situation out. = The link is http://www.meteorite.fr/en/news/feature.htm>> You will want to see my article in the Sept. 2002 METEORITE TIMES = (under the heading Meteorites 101) at http://www.meteoritetimes.com/current_issue/index.htm re: Update on NWA Classifications with comments from Dr. Jutta Zipfel = from the NomCom. This information is provided as a number of persons have indicated an = interest in hearing from the NomCom regarding this matter. Ron R. N. Hartman METEORITES and MEMBRANE SUSPENSION BOXES rnh_at_meteorite1.com www.meteorite1.com order_at_membranebox.com www.membranebox.com Mailing address: The R. N. Hartman Collection METEORITES P.O. Box 94 Walnut, CA 91788-0094 (U.S.) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: John Divelbiss <j.divelbiss_at_worldnet.att.net> To: Bernd Pauli HD <bernd.pauli_at_lehrer.uni-karlsruhe.de>; Radosevich, = Dave <Dave.Radosevich_at_trw.com> Cc: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bessey comment > Bernd, Dave and list, >=20 > I concur with the comments to date. But I thought it really wasn't = meteorite > until the "council" says it is? For now it is just a rock, right. >=20 > My gut tells me that science as a whole is missing the boat with the > NWA's...someday the negative positions taken during these times over = the > lack information like location, particulars of find, etc. will be a = mistake > that can't be fixed. I know this subject has had a lot of press, but = from a > simpletons point of view the treatment of the most NWA's not being > legitimate is wrong. I have no clue as to the fix(es) for the = problems > perceived, but to "putoff or shun" the likes of Dean and others to = get > classifications done in a timely matter is a mistake. Some dealers = have > direct connections that make this less of a problem...but they are = in the > minority I would think. A concerted effort to improve all aspects of = this > problem, including the availability of labs capable of doing such = work > should be done before we lose the bulk of potential information on = these > great rocks. It is late in the game, but not too late I would hope. = There > are many great pieces out here that are orphaned at this = point...with owners > wanting to know what it is. >=20 > Protesting not to buy or acknowledge this so called junk only = reinforces > this stubborn position. Those doing so are adding to the thick crust = of the > objectors...limiting science instead of improving it. >=20 > From the sounds of it, fixing the problems (some real, some = perceived due to > association) in Morocco are probably the hardest to resolve...and = they may > never be. But once the rocks are in hand, why can't the community = come to > grips with helping all of us with the classification process. >=20 > This is my two cents. I am newbie to all this, collecting only for = three > years. I'm sure many smart people out there have more insight. But = when you > break it down in my mind, the general treatment of NWA's (and other = African > meteorites) is WRONG! >=20 > I read an article written in May by fellow list member Norbert = Classen that > discusses this issue from another field collectors point of view. I = totally > agree and hope others will come forward to help this situation out. = The link > is http://www.meteorite.fr/en/news/feature.htm >=20 > Thanx for your time and forgive me if you are offended, >=20 > John Divelbiss (BL #33) > IMCA2006 >=20 > PS If no one responds, that's OK with me...it has happened before. > PSS Dean, keep trying for all of us. >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bernd Pauli HD" <bernd.pauli_at_lehrer.uni-karlsruhe.de> > To: "Radosevich, Dave" <Dave.Radosevich_at_trw.com> > Cc: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 4:31 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Bessey comment >=20 >=20 > > An enthusiastic Dave wrote: > > > > > If this is the "worst of the bunch" then the other 39 folks > > > got really really nice specimens. My BL15 is way better than > > > the photo. Mine has it all. It's oriented and shows flow lines, > > > rollover edge, and plenty of thumb prints. A personal thanks to > > > Dean Bessey for bringing this truly nice NWA to all of us (40). > > > > > > Hi Dave, BL-owners and List, > > > > Welcome to the BL-Club :-) Your description says it all! Congrats > > on this breathtaking specimen. I wanted to buy this one because of > > its relatively low weight (which saves money) but "didn't like the > > horizontal scar". Oh, well ... > > > > > I normally dont buy NWA's for reasons we have shared on this = list. > > > > They are meteorites without a pedigree ... but does beauty need > > a pedigree? They are meteorites. They have come from the same > > places as their "decent" brethren w i t h a pedigree! My two > > Euro-cents! > > > > Best regards, > > > > Bernd (BL #18) > > > > ______________________________________________ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > >=20 >=20 > ______________________________________________ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C25524.4B2E3BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3314.2100" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Ron and associates,</FONT><FONT size=3D2></DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Greetings. First off, I know you have along = distinguished=20 career in this arena and I wish to not offend you and others who have = given so=20 much to this great interest of many.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>My frustration is the long list of Sahara and NWA = numbers that=20 do not have official classifications including weights, etc. As Mark = Mafer=20 suggested there must be ways to help this process out by using a simpler = method=20 of classification for ordinary chondrites. It would not be the full = blown=20 method, but a reduced method that at least would = label/categorize many=20 of the unknowns. Is that possible? Make it a special label as "probable" = or=20 something like that. I can make guesses, but I'm sure my accuracy would = be=20 poor.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>I believe Dean when he says he has tried with difficulty to = get=20 classifications. Maybe at this point(due to frustration) he is just = passing the=20 burden on to others to keep his business going. Is it a lack of = effort or=20 is there one big roadblock, that only opens for the achondrites and the = #3=20 chondrites. I don't know...but what I do know is that the list = of official=20 meteorites is short compared to the amount of material = out there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the article, yes I read it this week and it sounds very = simple to=20 get a #. Who would someone like me contact, and what are = the odds=20 of getting a classification? A number without official (even if = probable)=20 classification is not helpful in my opinion. I mean if I go to the = trouble=20 of sending in something, only to end up with a number...what is the=20 point? I can label it I guess.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will try myself in near future to get a classification on an=20 unknown...and report back with my experience. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanx Ron for your interest,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>John</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- = </DIV></FONT>-----=20 Original Message ----- </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A href=3D"mailto:capricorn89_at_earthlink.net"=20 title=3Dcapricorn89_at_earthlink.net>meteorite1.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:j.divelbiss_at_worldnet.att.net"=20 title=3Dj.divelbiss_at_worldnet.att.net>John Divelbiss</A> ; <A=20 href=3D"mailto:bernd.pauli_at_lehrer.uni-karlsruhe.de"=20 title=3Dbernd.pauli_at_lehrer.uni-karlsruhe.de>Bernd Pauli HD</A> ; <A=20 href=3D"mailto:Dave.Radosevich_at_trw.com"=20 title=3DDave.Radosevich_at_trw.com>Radosevich, Dave</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com"=20 = title=3Dmeteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>meteorite-list@meteoritecentr= al.com</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 05, = 2002 8:48=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [meteorite-list] = Bessey=20 comment</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>John Divelbiss wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2><<I read an article written in May by fellow = list=20 member Norbert Classen that<BR>discusses this issue from another field = collectors point of view. I totally<BR>agree and hope others will come = forward=20 to help this situation out. The link<BR>is <A=20 = href=3D"http://www.meteorite.fr/en/news/feature.htm">http://www.meteorite= .fr/en/news/feature.htm</A>>></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>You will want to see my article in the Sept. 2002 = METEORITE=20 TIMES (under the heading Meteorites 101) at</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20 = href=3D"http://www.meteoritetimes.com/current_issue/index.htm">http://www= .meteoritetimes.com/current_issue/index.htm</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>re: <EM><U>Update on NWA=20 Classifications </U></EM>with comments from Dr. Jutta Zipfel from = the=20 NomCom.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>This information is provided as a number of = persons have=20 indicated an interest in hearing from the NomCom regarding this=20 matter.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <P><B><FONT face=3D"Lucida Handwriting" = size=3D4>Ron<BR></FONT></B><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D1>R. N. Hartman<BR>METEORITES and MEMBRANE = SUSPENSION=20 BOXES</FONT></P> <P><A href=3D"mailto:rnh_at_meteorite1.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20 size=3D1>rnh_at_meteorite1.com<BR>www.meteorite1.com</FONT></A></P> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D1><A=20 href=3D"mailto:order_at_membranebox.coom">order@membranebox.com<BR></A><A = href=3D"http://www.membramebox.com">www.membranebox.com</A></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D1>Mailing address:<BR>The R. N. Hartman = Collection=20 METEORITES<BR>P.O. Box 94<BR>Walnut, CA 91788-0094 = (U.S.)</FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>From: John Divelbiss <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:j.divelbiss_at_worldnet.att.net">j.divelbiss@worldnet.att.net= </A>></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>To: Bernd Pauli HD <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:bernd.pauli_at_lehrer.uni-karlsruhe.de">bernd.pauli@lehrer.un= i-karlsruhe.de</A>>;=20 Radosevich, Dave <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:Dave.Radosevich_at_trw.com">Dave.Radosevich@trw.com</A>></= FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Cc: <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com">meteorite-list@meteor= itecentral.com</A>></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 3:42 = PM</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bessey=20 comment</FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=3D2>> Bernd, Dave and list,<BR>> = <BR>> I=20 concur with the comments to date. But I thought it really wasn't=20 meteorite<BR>> until the "council" says it is? For now it is just a = rock,=20 right.<BR>> <BR>> My gut tells me that science as a whole is = missing the=20 boat with the<BR>> NWA's...someday the negative positions taken = during=20 these times over the<BR>> lack information like location, = particulars of=20 find, etc. will be a mistake<BR>> that can't be fixed. I know this = subject=20 has had a lot of press, but from a<BR>> simpletons point of view = the=20 treatment of the most NWA's not being<BR>> legitimate is wrong. I = have no=20 clue as to the fix(es) for the problems<BR>> perceived, but to = "putoff or=20 shun" the likes of Dean and others to get<BR>> classifications done = in a=20 timely matter is a mistake. Some dealers have<BR>> direct = connections that=20 make this less of a problem...but they are in the<BR>> minority I = would=20 think. A concerted effort to improve all aspects of this<BR>> = problem,=20 including the availability of labs capable of doing such work<BR>> = should=20 be done before we lose the bulk of potential information on = these<BR>>=20 great rocks. It is late in the game, but not too late I would hope.=20 There<BR>> are many great pieces out here that are orphaned at this = point...with owners<BR>> wanting to know what it is.<BR>> = <BR>>=20 Protesting not to buy or acknowledge this so called junk only=20 reinforces<BR>> this stubborn position. Those doing so are adding = to the=20 thick crust of the<BR>> objectors...limiting science instead of = improving=20 it.<BR>> <BR>> From the sounds of it, fixing the problems (some = real,=20 some perceived due to<BR>> association) in Morocco are probably the = hardest=20 to resolve...and they may<BR>> never be. But once the rocks are in = hand,=20 why can't the community come to<BR>> grips with helping all of us = with the=20 classification process.<BR>> <BR>> This is my two cents. I am = newbie to=20 all this, collecting only for three<BR>> years. I'm sure many smart = people=20 out there have more insight. But when you<BR>> break it down = in my=20 mind, the general treatment of NWA's (and other African<BR>> = meteorites) is=20 WRONG!<BR>> <BR>> I read an article written in May by fellow = list member=20 Norbert Classen that<BR>> discusses this issue from another field=20 collectors point of view. I totally<BR>> agree and hope others will = come=20 forward to help this situation out. The link<BR>> is <A=20 = href=3D"http://www.meteorite.fr/en/news/feature.htm">http://www.meteorite= .fr/en/news/feature.htm</A><BR>>=20 <BR>> Thanx for your time and forgive me if you are = offended,<BR>>=20 <BR>> John Divelbiss (BL #33)<BR>> IMCA2006<BR>> <BR>> PS = If no=20 one responds, that's OK with me...it has happened before.<BR>> PSS = Dean,=20 keep trying for all of us.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ----- Original = Message=20 -----<BR>> From: "Bernd Pauli HD" <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:bernd.pauli_at_lehrer.uni-karlsruhe.de">bernd.pauli@lehrer.un= i-karlsruhe.de</A>><BR>>=20 To: "Radosevich, Dave" <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:Dave.Radosevich_at_trw.com">Dave.Radosevich@trw.com</A>><B= R>>=20 Cc: <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com">meteorite-list@meteor= itecentral.com</A>><BR>>=20 Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 4:31 PM<BR>> Subject: = [meteorite-list]=20 Bessey comment<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> > An enthusiastic Dave=20 wrote:<BR>> ><BR>> > > If this is the "worst of the = bunch" then=20 the other 39 folks<BR>> > > got really really nice = specimens.=20 My BL15 is way better than<BR>> > > the photo. Mine has it = all. It's=20 oriented and shows flow lines,<BR>> > > rollover edge, and = plenty of=20 thumb prints. A personal thanks to<BR>> > > Dean Bessey for = bringing=20 this truly nice NWA to all of us (40).<BR>> ><BR>> = ><BR>> >=20 Hi Dave, BL-owners and List,<BR>> ><BR>> > Welcome to the = BL-Club=20 :-) Your description says it all! Congrats<BR>> > on this = breathtaking=20 specimen. I wanted to buy this one because of<BR>> > its = relatively low=20 weight (which saves money) but "didn't like the<BR>> > = horizontal scar".=20 Oh, well ...<BR>> ><BR>> > > I normally dont buy NWA's = for=20 reasons we have shared on this list.<BR>> ><BR>> > They = are=20 meteorites without a pedigree ... but does beauty need<BR>> > a=20 pedigree? They are meteorites. They have come from the same<BR>> = >=20 places as their "decent" brethren w i t h a = pedigree!=20 My two<BR>> > Euro-cents!<BR>> ><BR>> > Best=20 regards,<BR>> ><BR>> > Bernd (BL #18)<BR>> ><BR>> = >=20 ______________________________________________<BR>> > = Meteorite-list=20 mailing list<BR>> > <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com">Meteorite-list@meteor= itecentral.com</A><BR>>=20 > <A=20 = href=3D"http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list">http://w= ww.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list</A><BR>>=20 ><BR>> <BR>> <BR>>=20 ______________________________________________<BR>> Meteorite-list = mailing=20 list<BR>> <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com">Meteorite-list@meteor= itecentral.com</A><BR>>=20 <A=20 = href=3D"http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list">http://w= ww.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list</A><BR>>=20 </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C25524.4B2E3BE0-- Received on Thu 05 Sep 2002 09:36:28 PM PDT |
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