[meteorite-list] The big questions?
From: Charlie Devine <moonrock25_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:08:19 2004 Message-ID: <5182-3D7250A4-7_at_storefull-2357.public.lawson.webtv.net> --WebTV-Mail-12767-6 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Hi John and listmembers, If I were selling a piece and had the card or label that came with it, I would include that card with the purchase. The reason being that someday that card itself will be old, and whoever owns that specimen years down the line will appreciate having that card in all likelihood. For instance, years ago I bought quite a few specimens from David New. Especially now that he no longer deals in meteorites on a regular basis, I appreciate even more having kept his specimen cards. Old specimen cards from 19th century collectors are certainly coveted. For instance take a look at the Specimen Cards section on this page: http://aristotle.isu.edu/global_collection/gc_index.htm So save those specimen cards and pass them along to any subsequent collector. Best wishes, Charlie --WebTV-Mail-12767-6 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from smtpinvite-2001-2.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.213.202) by storefull-2357.public.lawson.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 08:08:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pairlist.net (pairlist.net [216.92.1.92]) by smtpinvite-2001-2.public.lawson.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+sws) with ESMTP id D4D40FE16; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 08:08:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pairlist.net (localhost.pair.com [127.0.0.1]) by pairlist.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E213536CC; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 11:04:41 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: meteorite-list_at_pairlist.net Received: from mu.pair.com (mu.pair.com [209.68.1.23]) by pairlist.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BA4CC53685 for <meteorite-list_at_lists.meteoritecentral.com>; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 10:03:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 91741 invoked by uid 7111); 1 Sep 2002 14:06:53 -0000 Delivered-To: arthur-meteoritecentral:com-meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com Received: (qmail 91736 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2002 14:06:53 -0000 Received: from mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net (204.127.131.48) by mu.pair.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2002 14:06:53 -0000 Received: from 0m824 ([12.90.21.171]) by mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020901140619.LUVX3050.mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net_at_0m824>; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 14:06:19 +0000 Message-ID: <002701c251c0$d60f68e0$ab155a0c_at_0m824> From: "John Divelbiss" <j.divelbiss_at_worldnet.att.net> To: <FERNLEA4_at_aol.com>, <shauncdaniel@hotmail.com>, <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> References: <a0.2c423cc1.2aa236ac_at_aol.com> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The big questions? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01C2519F.4DF2C180" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com Errors-To: meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com X-BeenThere: meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0 Precedence: bulk List-Help: <mailto:meteorite-list-request_at_meteoritecentral.com?subject=help> List-Post: <mailto:meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com> List-Subscribe: <http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list>, <mailto:meteorite-list-request_at_meteoritecentral.com?subject=subscribe> List-Id: Meteorite Discussion Forum <meteorite-list.meteoritecentral.com> List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list>, <mailto:meteorite-list-request_at_meteoritecentral.com?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/> Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 10:06:56 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C2519F.4DF2C180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Shaun, Rob and rest of list, In regards to making a sale...what is the proper (or recommended) = protocol for sending identification with the reselling of a given = piece?. If John Doe buys from Dealer A who has a reputable history and = provides a card saying Dealer A's Meteorites or from the Collection of = Dealer A, what has more meaning: to resale with a new card from John = Doe's Meteorites, or to provide the old card from the long standing = Dealer A? I suppose it has more to do with whether John Doe is trying to = gain his own reputation as a dealer or resaler (as Mike Blood suggests = many of us are). If one is just trying to unload some pieces on = occasion, it may mean more to pass on documention from the previous = source.=20 Or, is it up to the new dealer/resaler John Doe to stand up and say it = is what it is, or should he wait some period of time to do that until he = gains trust in the collectors? I've seen it both ways, but for new guys = guys like Shaun and I, "what is the recommended practice?" I plan on = selling some of my collection this fall, so I'm looking for advice. John Divelbiss ----- Original Message -----=20 From: FERNLEA4_at_aol.com=20 To: shauncdaniel_at_hotmail.com ; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com=20 Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The big questions? In a message dated 30/08/02 17:54:06 GMT Daylight Time, = shauncdaniel_at_hotmail.com writes: What it comes down to is this, how can anyone that can't study = these rocks know for sure what they are. Say I purchased two different = H4 meteorites and both look alike in most respects. How can anyone know = its not the same stone with a different name pinned on it. Hi Shaun and all. I don't think anyone replied to Shaun's questions, so I'll have a stab = at answering them. Regarding two different H4's that look the same visually, and how to = tell that they're not from the same stone, the short answer to this = is.....you can't!...at least, not easily! With a bit of collecting/dealing experience, you can get a "feel" for = some named meteorites and know what to expect them to look like, but = that's VERY far from being conclusive and not much better than an = educated guess. Even electron microprobe and petrologic microscope might = not be able to duplicate the original analysis exactly, and tell with = 100% certainty, precisely which named fall or find is under study. When buying meteorites, anyone should ask themselves how much faith = they have in a dealer/seller, or ask other collectors for their opinions = about them. Crap and bogus sellers don't tend to last very long in this = game luckily, so anyone should be able to find out quite easily who to = avoid. Major dealers often trade meteorites with museums & institutions, and = when a trade completes there's a certain amount of documentation = involved. Other times, deals might be closed with professional = meteoriticists, but there's usually full TRACEABILITY in one form or = another. Personally speaking, I don't (and won't!) start pulling out = past trade documentation from the filing cabinet and wave them about = just to prove something to a cautious buyer in order to close a sale, = but I have them here safely. << How can I assure anyone who buys my product that this is the = genuine article.>> It can take time - especially if this is the first time the buyer has = ever considered buying a meteorite before, and perhaps only then because = they chanced upon your website late one night while playing around with = the search engines. Anyone with any common sense would surely find out a = bit more about meteorites before parting with hard cash, but they will = probably look to you as the expert and fire a load of questions at you. = Don't blind them with science and talk of chondrules or stuff like that = (not yet! ;-) )......if they are genuinely interested, pictures are = probably the best place for them to start learning. Maybe tell them to = look in their family encyclopaedia under "meteorites" and to check out = the pictures of etched iron meteorites and cut stones. I have an old set = of encylopaedias here that are almost as old as I am (41), but they have = pages and pages of meteorite info & pictures which clearly match many = iron & stony meteorites on the market today....sometimes, they ARE the = actual meteorites on the market today!! Failing that, library books, the = internet etc. Just don't give them the hard-sell routine, as it rarely works anyway. << you have to admitt, this is a funny market on meteorites. >> That's for sure! Some people I've met over the years are beyond convincing and will = never fully believe that these chunks of stone & iron are genuine = meteorites, no matter what I tell them. To some, it's all seems far too = unlikely that private individuals can ever own a meteorite. Books help, especially those with pictures that clearly match up with = the space rock you're holding in your hand alongside the page. Arm = yourself with Richard Norton's new "Rocks from Space" and then let = people make up their own minds during your next "show and tell" session = :-) Cheers, Rob. www.meteorites.uk.com Fernlea Meteorites, The Wynd, Off Dickson Lane, Milton of Balgonie, Fife. KY7 6PY United Kingdom Tel: +44-(0)1592-751563 Fax: +44-(0)1592-751991 Mobile: 07909-773929 Email: fernlea4_at_aol.com=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C2519F.4DF2C180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3314.2100" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Shaun, Rob and rest of list,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>In regards to making a sale...what is the proper=20 (or recommended) protocol for sending identification with the = reselling of=20 a given piece?. If John Doe buys from Dealer A who has a=20 reputable history and provides a card saying Dealer A's Meteorites = or from=20 the Collection of Dealer A, what has more meaning: to resale with a = new=20 card from John Doe's Meteorites, or to provide the old card from the = long=20 standing Dealer A</FONT><FONT size=3D2>? I suppose it has more to do = with=20 whether John Doe is trying to gain his own reputation as a=20 dealer or resaler (as Mike Blood suggests many of us are). If one=20 is just trying to unload some pieces on occasion, it may mean more = to pass=20 on documention from the previous source. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Or, is it up to the new dealer/resaler John Doe to = stand up=20 and say it is what it is, or should he wait some period of time to = do=20 that until he gains trust in the collectors? I've seen it both = ways, but=20 for new guys guys like Shaun and I, "what is the recommended=20 practice?" I plan on selling some of my collection this = fall,=20 so I'm looking for advice.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>John Divelbiss</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A href=3D"mailto:FERNLEA4_at_aol.com" = title=3DFERNLEA4_at_aol.com>FERNLEA4@aol.com</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:shauncdaniel_at_hotmail.com"=20 title=3Dshauncdaniel_at_hotmail.com>shauncdaniel@hotmail.com</A> ; <A=20 href=3D"mailto:meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com"=20 = title=3Dmeteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>meteorite-list@meteoritecentr= al.com</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, August 31, 2002 = 11:11=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [meteorite-list] = The big=20 questions?</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT face=3DArial = lang=3D0 size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">In a message dated 30/08/02 17:54:06 GMT Daylight = Time, <A=20 href=3D"mailto:shauncdaniel_at_hotmail.com">shauncdaniel@hotmail.com</A>=20 writes:<BR><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"=20 TYPE=3D"CITE">What it comes down to is this, how can anyone that = can't=20 study these rocks know for sure what they are. Say I purchased two=20 different H4 meteorites and both look alike in most respects. = How can=20 anyone know its not the same stone with a different name pinned on=20 it.</FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial lang=3D0 size=3D3=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 = face=3DArial=20 lang=3D0 size=3D2 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR>Hi=20 Shaun and all.<BR>I don't think anyone replied to Shaun's questions, = so I'll=20 have a stab at answering them.<BR>Regarding two different H4's that = look the=20 same visually, and how to tell that they're not from the same stone, = the short=20 answer to this is.....you can't!...at least, not easily!<BR>With a bit = of=20 collecting/dealing experience, you can get a "feel" for some named = meteorites=20 and know what to expect them to look like, but that's VERY far from = being=20 conclusive and not much better than an educated guess. Even electron=20 microprobe and petrologic microscope might not be able to duplicate = the=20 original analysis exactly, and tell with 100% certainty, precisely = which named=20 fall or find is under study.<BR><BR>When buying meteorites, anyone = should ask=20 themselves how much faith they have in a dealer/seller, or ask other=20 collectors for their opinions about them. Crap and bogus sellers don't = tend to=20 last very long in this game luckily, so anyone should be able to find = out=20 quite easily who to avoid.<BR>Major dealers often trade meteorites = with=20 museums & institutions, and when a trade completes there's a = certain=20 amount of documentation involved. Other times, deals might be closed = with=20 professional meteoriticists, but there's usually full TRACEABILITY in = one form=20 or another. Personally speaking, I don't (and won't!) start pulling = out past=20 trade documentation from the filing cabinet and wave them about just = to prove=20 something to a cautious buyer in order to close a sale, but I have = them here=20 safely.<BR><BR><< How can I assure anyone who buys my product = that this=20 is the genuine article.</FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial = lang=3D0 size=3D3=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">>><BR></FONT><FONT=20 color=3D#000000 face=3DArial lang=3D0 size=3D2 = style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR>It can take time - especially if this is the = first time=20 the buyer has ever considered buying a meteorite before, and perhaps = only then=20 because they chanced upon your website late one night while playing = around=20 with the search engines. Anyone with any common sense would surely = find out a=20 bit more about meteorites before parting with hard cash, but they will = probably look to you as the expert and fire a load of questions at = you. Don't=20 blind them with science and talk of chondrules or stuff like that (not = yet!=20 ;-) )......if they are genuinely interested, pictures are probably the = best=20 place for them to start learning. Maybe tell them to look in their = family=20 encyclopaedia under "meteorites" and to check out the pictures of = etched iron=20 meteorites and cut stones. I have an old set of encylopaedias here = that are=20 almost as old as I am (41), but they have pages and pages of meteorite = info=20 & pictures which clearly match many iron & stony meteorites on = the=20 market today....sometimes, they ARE the actual meteorites on the = market=20 today!! Failing that, library books, the internet etc.<BR>Just don't = give them=20 the hard-sell routine, as it rarely works anyway.<BR><BR><< you = have to=20 admitt, this is a funny market on meteorites.</FONT><FONT = color=3D#000000=20 face=3DArial lang=3D0 size=3D3 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">=20 >><BR><BR></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial lang=3D0 = size=3D2=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">That's for = sure!<BR>Some=20 people I've met over the years are beyond convincing and will never = fully=20 believe that these chunks of stone & iron are genuine meteorites, = no=20 matter what I tell them. To some, it's all seems far too unlikely that = private=20 individuals can ever own a meteorite.<BR>Books help, especially those = with=20 pictures that clearly match up with the space rock you're holding in = your hand=20 alongside the page. Arm yourself with Richard Norton's new "Rocks from = Space"=20 and then let people make up their own minds during your next "show and = tell"=20 session :-)<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Rob.<BR>www.meteorites.uk.com<BR>Fernlea = Meteorites,<BR>The Wynd,<BR>Off Dickson Lane,<BR>Milton of = Balgonie,<BR>Fife.=20 KY7 6PY<BR>United Kingdom<BR>Tel: +44-(0)1592-751563<BR>Fax:=20 +44-(0)1592-751991<BR>Mobile: 07909-773929<BR>Email: = fernlea4_at_aol.com</FONT>=20 </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C2519F.4DF2C180-- ______________________________________________ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list --WebTV-Mail-12767-6-- Received on Sun 01 Sep 2002 01:38:44 PM PDT |
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