[meteorite-list] Rose City H5 Chondrite Auction Questioning/Picture

From: Tom <michguy7_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:02:30 2004
Message-ID: <B8BBA5E7.EAE%michguy7_at_mac.com>

Anybody want to take a look to compare....

>From ebay - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1081837462

>From ASU - http://meteorites.asu.edu/rose.htm


Tom Perry

By the way I am not Tom Topaz





> March 18, 2002
>
>
> Greetings Meteorite Enthusiasts!
>
> Long time no type, I must agree! Since the advent of
> Lent, I decided to cut back on using the computer
> except for work and special matters, which excludes
> Sundays, of course.
>
> But now, someone has opened up an interesting
> discussion concerning one of my favorite meteorites
> --- Rose City. Since I am still intently searching
> the area in my county (Newaygo) for a Michigan
> meteorite, it so happens that I like to learn
> everything I can about the fascinating specimens and
> rumors of meteorites that have been found in the
> state. This has boiled down in a way to include
> keeping track of such meteorites that are being
> offered for sale.
>
> Tom, or his ebay User ID: topaz.mineral.expl is the
> only person I have so far come across that ever sells
> Michigan meteorites on ebay, which according to his
> auctions, is also the only source I know of for the
> rare Rose City H5 chondrite (fall, 1921), Grand Rapids
> IRANOM octahedrite (find, 1883), and Seneca Township
> fine octahedrite (find, 1923). As of recent, it
> appears that he has put up a lot of Michigan meteorite
> pieces for bid, including the big chunk (28.7g) of
> what he calls Rose City; the cause of current
> questioning. Despite that, that particular auction
> evidently caused some hearty bidding and ended a
> little while ago.
>
> When I first started visiting his auctions, I was
> dumfounded that a person was actually selling Michigan
> meteorites, of which I am gathering, are not very
> commonly offered for sale! This prompted me to
> finally ask him where he was able to get such a big
> and handsome piece of Rose City and Allegan, which at
> the time referred to large sized samples from both
> falls. He e-mailed me back (Thursday, September 20,
> 2001) and writes in part of the letter:
>
> "This is the third or fourth piece of the Rose City
> that I have had for sale over the past several years,
> although this is by far the best. They are all from
> my personal collection acquired over the past 35 years
> (I have been a mineral dealer since 1977). On ebay I
> have offered specimens of almost all of the Michigan
> falls and finds."
>
> In any event, I must agree with the questions raised
> about the pictures he has displayed in his ebay
> auctions. They do seem to contrast noticeably with
> the first picture I had glanced of Rose City, the
> beautiful one pictured on the Arizona State University
> web site.
>
> The link to the picture is at:
> http://meteorites.asu.edu/rose.htm
>
> Perhaps this distinct difference is due to what Bern
> doubtfully inferred at the end of his e-mail about the
> subject --- a light-colored clast. Of course, one
> would more likely agree with Bern's other conclusions,
> and dismiss the clast theory altogether, since all the
> other Rose City pieces I have seen by Tom exhibit (at
> least mostly if not entirely) the same texture and
> color as his most recent piece. Still, don't always
> cling to what seems to be the obvious or "easy"
> conclusion and be carried away with one's
> extrapolations, of which even I am at fault with (and
> not to say that Bern was). In this case, such a hasty
> conclusion would translate into the 28.7 gram chunk of
> rock labeled as Rose City as not being one in the same
> when shown with definitive Rose City material. At
> this point negative extrapolation would take over.
>
> Now with that said, here is a theory (expanded from
> Bern's) that should be given some thought. From the
> pieces professionally examined, Rose City is looked
> upon as one highly shocked chunk of space rock, with
> an S6 designation! Perhaps this meteorite,
> unbeknownst to the majority of meteorite enthusiasts
> due in part to its rarity, is composed of two distinct
> meteorite materials cemented together, so much so that
> perhaps a better term needs to be used--- a
> mesoclastic-breccia if you will. Therefore, possibly
> only certain section(s) of Rose City were ever sampled
> for sale and/or for study which involved revealing the
> brutally brecciated black matrix we commonly associate
> with Rose City, and only a small percentage of the
> lighter "peaceful" matrix that went unnoticed.
>
> In conclusion, I do not detect deceit by Tom, but
> question his Rose City picture like a cautious
> potential bidder should. In his new Seneca Township
> ebay auction which I believe is still going on, it
> should be noted that he has taken the effort to
> correct a mistake regarding the location where the
> iron was found.
>
> If you would like to response to me privately or have
> a question, etc., your best bet for an answer is to
> use this e-mail for the next few weeks:
> marktfoxvdb_at_yahoo.com
>
> Please forgive me for errors if any are present in
> this letter.
>
> Long strewn fields!
>
> Mark Fox
> Newaygo, MI USA
>
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Received on Mon 18 Mar 2002 02:10:47 PM PST