[meteorite-list] A difference of opinion

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From: tett <tett_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 09:49:00 2004
Message-ID: <3BA33959.1619E777_at_bmts.com>

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Rob and Colleen,

Right now there is nothing more important than to turn to God in
whatever form each individual believes.

Right now we must pray for each individual that has been and will be
affected by this brutality. This means everyone. Dead American,
grieving widow, tired rescue worker, western ally, Afghani peasant.
This criminal deed will have horrible ramifications on all of humanity.

Right now we must realize that more violence will not stop the
terrorism. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! More violence is exactly what these
terrorists want. If innocent Afghanis or other Muslims die then we will
only add fuel to the fire and increase the homeland support for the
terrorists.

After prayer, tending to the dead and their families, cleaning up the
debris, then we can go on and figure out how to stop future attacks.
Get Bin Ladin and his group. Get the terrorists. I am sure that with
political pressure and, if needed, invading forces we can round up these
criminals. In this way we can fight directly with the terrorists and
those that wish to support them. As well, we need to guard ourselves as
best as possible so that terrorists can not kill on this type of scale
again.

I am sure many will say that this is simply naive. I say it will be
difficult but possible. What is naive is to think that we can bomb a
country to get hold of a small faction.

More innocent people must not be killed in a broad stroke of war in
order to get a few of the aggressors. Again, not only will this be
ineffective but will, in turn, lead to more terrorist attacks.

No life is more precious than another's. This is fundamental in my
religion and I believe in most of the worlds religions. A peasant
Afghani is equal in the eyes of God as any affluent American. We must
hold all life as precious.

Kevin and Michael, I am with you. Let us pray.

Mike Tettenborn

P.S. Michael and Cathi Casper. Thanks for the Wendell Berry poem:

Now you know the worst
we humans have to know
about ourselves, and I am sorry,

for I know that you will be afraid.
To those of our bodies given
without pity to be burned, I know

there is no answer
but loving one another,
even our enemies, and this is hard.

But remember:
when a man of war becomes a man of peace,
he gives a light, divine

though it is also human.
When a man of peace is killed
by a man of war, he gives a light.

You do not have to walk in darkness.
If you will have the courage for love,
you may walk in light.

It will be the light of those who have suffered
for peace. It will be your light.

Rob and Colleen wrote:

> Kevin/Michael
>
> Let us just pray then. Oh please make terrorism and religious zealots
> go away, we don't like it, it's bad. And please God, Buddha, Mohammed,
> Great Spirit of the North, can I have a pony too?
>
> Sorry, only fools try to wish things away.
>
> I advocate doing this right, minimizing innocent deaths, but when we
> (NATO) are assured of our targets then I pray that we destroy them
> with a fury that will be legendary, even in Hell.
>
> Pray for the dead, the families of the dead, our heroes, our president
> and world leaders. But if you are praying for anything other than the
> death of terrorists as a whole then those prayers are wasted and
> perhaps you should consider a difference of religion.
>
> This is not boasting, this is the view of the US government, Millions
> of Americans, and if you watch the news, a few other countries too. I
> don't sit around wishing for war, this is not a dream come true, a
> chance to unleash my own personal wrath. I have no desire to fight but
> fight we must and I will go if called upon. We are dealing with the
> insane, a new breed of terrorist bent on destroying anyone who isn't
> religious enough for him. They kill indiscriminately. There is no
> religious solution here and I hope I misread your intent of your post.
>
> Finally, we agree on the bashing of poor Matteo. We need to get on.
> The same people who chastised him for "life must go on" were obviously
> sitting at their computers reading their email. Life goes on guys.
> Stores are open, planes are flying, the stock market reopens Monday.
> Capitalism continues and Matteo is dealing with this just like the
> rest of us. We know his posts are always threefold but we subscribe to
> those three lists. They are always threefold, we know this, so let's
> not go mustang on this little issue. Someone had to be the first to
> resume the regular activities of daily living. He is an asset to this
> group.
>
> Kevin/Michael. I have always enjoyed your posts in the past and again
> I hope I have misread your intent here.
>
> Rob Wesel
> Ambassador of freedom, don't own a gun or know how to use one,
> agnostic, 30-year-old whiteneck.
>
>
>
> MARSROX_at_aol.com wrote:
>
>> I just came in from six hours of collecting yard debris scattered by
>> Tropical
>> Storm Gabriel this morning. There's enough to fill a small dumpster.
>> A fifty
>> foot (16m) Washingtonian Palm was blown over next door falling
>> between our
>> houses. During my chores I found myself fuming over some of the
>> dialogue
>> that's passed this way during the last days. I will offer here a
>> different
>> observation.
>>
>> List members have offered their views about this week's horror. The
>> views
>> range from offering prayers (I'm all for that) to "nuke their babies
>> with
>> bombs slick with pig grease" (I'm all against that).
>>
>> The latter redneck suggestion personally offends me and doesn't
>> reflect what
>> America stands for. I'll remind my pompous friends that each of us
>> is an
>> ambassador of our country on this list that circulates around the
>> world. I'll
>> remind my friends that Teddy Roosevelt prepared for war with these
>> words -
>> "Walk softly and carry a big stick."
>>
>> I'll assume from these boasts, that certain list members will be
>> applying to
>> join a branch of our Armed Forces this Monday and ask for duty in
>> Afghanistan
>> so that they can better let their deeds match their vengeful
>> desires. We
>> mostly need human intelligence so you'll be assigned to infiltrate
>> the devils
>> liar. Grow a beard and smell like a camel, it's part of the uniform.
>>
>> Having looked over the border into Afghanistan from Pakistan and
>> walked away
>> alive, walked away from arms dealers with discount Stinger missiles
>> (some
>> assembly required), barrels of hash oil, and the knowledge that a
>> "bad deal"
>> would result in my head becoming a polo ball for horsemen, I'll
>> challenge my
>> belligerent justice seekers taking up space here with their macho
>> rhetoric to
>> cross the Hindu Kush and seek and destroy the enemy within. In
>> "Victory they
>> will prevail". Send me a card.
>>
>> Otherwise, please put your wee-wees back in your pocket.
>>
>> The second matter concerns approximately the same individuals
>> chastising
>> Matteo for advertising a meteorite sale yesterday. I note that
>> Matteo sent
>> his sympathies to this list on Sept. 11. I also note that every
>> bank,
>> government office, 7-11 and McDonald's in SW Florida is open for
>> business
>> yesterday, today and tomorrow. No public or private school in Lee
>> County
>> Florida has ever closed due to this disaster. Apparently everyone is
>> "selfish
>> and unpatriotic" around here.
>>
>> This IS the "Meteorite bulletin board", not a venue for hysterical
>> political
>> babblings. I'm disappointed with this needless public embarrassment
>> of
>> Matteo. To be fair, be sure to insult Steve Arnold who just sent me
>> a list of
>> goodies available in Denver. Be sure to insult all the dealers in
>> Denver who
>> are pushing meteorites this moment for their own personal greed. Go
>> ahead and
>> insult me for not praying in all four cardinal directions this
>> morning.
>>
>> Conversely , the church service I watched at noon during a break in
>> my work
>> was so inspirational. The Reverend Billy Graham sure grabbed my
>> attention
>> with his message that "the dead are in heaven now and I assure you
>> they don't
>> want to come back here!"
>>
>> Hopefully in Heaven I won't have to read the crap I've seen here.
>> Actually I
>> don't have to read here and now.
>>
>> Matteo is not a friend or acquaintance. Neither is he the devil
>> incarnate.
>> Matteo has done nothing wrong and is owed an apology from those who
>> have
>> insulted him. My time is valuable and I don't waste it reading
>> messages from
>> those who don't have a mature point-of-view. If I don't see an
>> apology, I
>> will be blocking the addresses of these offenders from my mailbox
>> (you're
>> first up Harlan.....).
>>
>> And by the way all you "masters of war" - be careful what you wish
>> for, it
>> might come true.
>>
>> Kevin Kichinka
>>
>> Check out the new Meteorite Central logo wear at
>> http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=meteorites
>> _______________________________________________
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
>> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>

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Rob and Colleen,
Right now there is nothing more important than to turn to God in whatever
form each individual believes.
Right now we must pray for each individual that has been and will be
affected by this brutality.  This means everyone.  Dead American,
grieving widow, tired rescue worker, western ally, Afghani peasant. 
This criminal deed will have horrible ramifications on all of humanity.
Right now we must realize that more violence will not stop the terrorism. 
PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  More violence is exactly what these terrorists
want.  If innocent Afghanis or other Muslims die then we will only
add fuel to the fire and increase the homeland support for the terrorists.
After prayer, tending to the dead and their families, cleaning up the
debris, then we can go on and figure out how to stop future attacks. 
Get Bin Ladin and his group.  Get the terrorists.  I am sure
that with political pressure and, if needed, invading forces we can round
up these criminals.  In this way we can fight directly with the terrorists
and those that wish to support them.  As well, we need to guard ourselves
as best as possible so that terrorists can not kill on this type of scale
again.
I am sure many will say that this is simply naive.  I say it will
be difficult but possible.  What is naive is to think that we can
bomb a country to get hold of a small faction.
More innocent people must not be killed in a broad stroke of war in
order to get a few of the aggressors.  Again, not only will this be
ineffective but will, in turn, lead to more terrorist attacks.
No life is more precious than another's.  This is fundamental in
my religion and I believe in most of the worlds religions.  A peasant
Afghani is equal in the eyes of God as any affluent American.  We
must hold all life as precious.
Kevin and Michael, I am with you.  Let us pray.
Mike Tettenborn
P.S. Michael and Cathi Casper.  Thanks for the Wendell Berry poem:
Now you know the worst
 we humans have to know
 about ourselves, and I am sorry,
  
 for I know that you will be afraid.
 To those of our bodies given
 without pity to be burned, I know
  
 there is no answer
 but loving one another,
 even our enemies, and this is hard.
  
 But remember:
 when a man of war becomes a man of peace,
 he gives a light, divine
  
 though it is also human.
 When a man of peace is killed
 by a man of war, he gives a light.
  
 You do not have to walk in darkness.
 If you will have the courage for love,
 you may walk in light.
  
 It will be the light of those who have suffered
 for peace. It will be your light.
  
  
Rob and Colleen wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE> Kevin/Michael
Let us just pray then. Oh please make terrorism and religious zealots
go away, we don't like it, it's bad. And please God, Buddha, Mohammed,
Great Spirit of the North, can I have a pony too?
Sorry, only fools try to wish things away.
I advocate doing this right, minimizing innocent deaths, but when we
(NATO) are assured of our targets then I pray that we destroy them
with a fury that will be legendary, even in Hell.
Pray for the dead, the families of the dead, our heroes, our president
and world leaders. But if you are praying for anything other than the death
of terrorists as a whole then those prayers are wasted and perhaps you
should consider a difference of religion.
This is not boasting, this is the view of the US government, Millions
of Americans, and if you watch the news, a few other countries too. I don't
sit around wishing for war, this is not a dream come true, a chance to
unleash my own personal wrath. I have no desire to fight but fight we must
and I will go if called upon. We are dealing with the insane, a new breed
of terrorist bent on destroying anyone who isn't religious enough for him.
They kill indiscriminately. There is no religious solution here and I hope
I misread your intent of your post.
Finally, we agree on the bashing of poor Matteo. We need to get on.
The same people who chastised him for "life must go on" were obviously
sitting at their computers reading their email. Life goes on guys. Stores
are open, planes are flying, the stock market reopens Monday. Capitalism
continues and Matteo is dealing with this just like the rest of us. We
know his posts are always threefold but we subscribe to those three lists.
They are always threefold, we know this, so let's not go mustang on this
little issue. Someone had to be the first to resume the regular activities
of daily living. He is an asset to this group.
Kevin/Michael. I have always enjoyed your posts in the past and again
I hope I have misread your intent here.
Rob Wesel
 Ambassador of freedom, don't own a gun or know how to use one, agnostic,
30-year-old whiteneck.
  
  
MARSROX_at_aol.com wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>I just came in from six hours of collecting yard
debris scattered by Tropical
 Storm Gabriel this morning. There's enough to fill a small dumpster.
A fifty
 foot (16m) Washingtonian Palm was blown over next door falling between
our
 houses. During my chores I found myself fuming over some of the dialogue
 that's passed this way during the last days. I will offer here a different
 observation.
List members have offered their views about this week's horror. The
views
 range from offering prayers (I'm all for that) to "nuke their babies
with
 bombs slick with pig grease" (I'm all against that).
The latter redneck suggestion personally offends me and doesn't reflect
what
 America stands for. I'll remind my pompous friends that each of us
is an
 ambassador of our country on this list that circulates around the world.
I'll
 remind my friends that Teddy Roosevelt prepared for war with these
words -
 "Walk softly and carry a big stick."
I'll assume from these boasts, that certain list members will be applying
to
 join a branch of our Armed Forces this Monday and ask for duty in Afghanistan
 so that they can better let their deeds match their vengeful desires.
We
 mostly need human intelligence so you'll be assigned to infiltrate
the devils
 liar. Grow a beard and smell like a camel, it's part of the uniform.
Having looked over the border into Afghanistan from Pakistan and walked
away
 alive, walked away from arms dealers with discount Stinger missiles
(some
 assembly required), barrels of hash oil, and the knowledge that a "bad
deal"
 would result in my head becoming a polo ball for horsemen, I'll challenge
my
 belligerent justice seekers taking up space here with their macho rhetoric
to
 cross the Hindu Kush and seek and destroy the enemy within. In "Victory
they
 will prevail". Send me a card.
Otherwise, please put your wee-wees back in your pocket.
The second matter concerns approximately the same individuals chastising
 Matteo for advertising a meteorite sale yesterday. I note that Matteo
sent
 his sympathies to this list on Sept. 11. I also note that every bank,
 government office, 7-11 and McDonald's in SW Florida is open for business
 yesterday, today and tomorrow.  No public or private school in
Lee County
 Florida has ever closed due to this disaster. Apparently everyone is
"selfish
 and unpatriotic" around here.
This IS the "Meteorite bulletin board", not a venue for hysterical political
 babblings.  I'm disappointed with this needless public embarrassment
of
 Matteo. To be fair, be sure to insult Steve Arnold who just sent me
a list of
 goodies available in Denver. Be sure to insult all the dealers in Denver
who
 are pushing meteorites this moment for their own personal greed. Go
ahead and
 insult me for not praying in all four cardinal directions this morning.
Conversely , the church service I watched at noon during a break in
my work
 was so inspirational. The Reverend  Billy Graham sure grabbed
my attention
 with his message that "the dead are in heaven now and I assure you
they don't
 want to come back here!"
Hopefully in Heaven I won't have to read the crap I've seen here. Actually
I
 don't have to read here and now.
Matteo is not a friend or acquaintance. Neither is he the devil incarnate.
 Matteo has done nothing wrong and is owed an apology from those who
have
 insulted him. My time is valuable and I don't waste it reading messages
from
 those who don't have a mature point-of-view.  If I don't see an
apology, I
 will be blocking the addresses of these offenders from my mailbox (you're
 first up Harlan.....).
And by the way all you "masters of war" - be careful what you wish for,
it
 might come true.
Kevin Kichinka
Check out the new Meteorite Central logo wear at <a href="http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=meteorites">http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=meteorites</a>
 _______________________________________________
 Meteorite-list mailing list
 Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
 <a href="http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list">http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list</a></blockquote>
</blockquote>
</html>

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Received on Sat 15 Sep 2001 07:19:53 AM PDT

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