[meteorite-list] The SNC story - The Dilemma of Distrust and Defamation

From: Matteo Chinellato <mcomemeteorite2000_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 09:46:23 2004
Message-ID: <20010512201445.76726.qmail_at_web10304.mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Norbert and all

Yes the problem of the SNC find in Libya is very big.
Many new hunter in Libya have find others pieces in
the same site of the DaG 489 SNC but this have
classificated with another number, no the same 489
number. The founder of DaG 489 and 670 have found
other little fragments of DaG 489 but probably, if he
want, inform only the Met. Society others pieces of
DaG 489 is find and the TKW is change, but no give
another number. Who is have give me the confirm the
DaG 876 is another SNC meteorite and no another piece
of DaG 489 or 670 or 476 or 735 etc...? The problem is
this, all DaG's SNC is equal and impossible find if is
a piece of DaG 489, 670 etc...many have speculate time
ago sale pieces of DaG 476 for DaG 489, and now the
market is a total confusion. I am sorry for my bad
english, if interested I put the email in italian and
all of you translate this.
Regards

matteo

--- Norbert Classen <trifid_at_timewarp.de> ha scritto: >
Dear list members,
>
> I'm quite new to this list but not new to
> meteoritics. Since
> this is my first post I'd like to introduce myself
> briefly:
> I'm a German freelance writer and meteorite
> collector, and
> some of you already know me as a fellow collector,
> as an
> active buyer/customer or as a friend. Hi folks!
>
> Since one focus of my collection is on Achondrites,
> specially
> on HEDs, SNCs and Lunars I'd like to talk about
> someting that
> really bothers me since some times: did anyone else
> of you
> notice that there's always a certain air of distrust
> and
> defamation around each and every new SNC find? I'm
> not talking
> about the falls nor am I talking about the antartic
> finds...
>
> Let's start with the Nakhlite finds, Lafayette and
> Governador
> Valadares, which both were suspected to be
> mislabeled or
> intentionally misplaced individuals of the Nakhla
> fall. And
> although there's much evidence from lots of research
> done on
> this three meteorites that at least convinces me
> that they are
> not paired I encounter this argument as often as I
> discuss
> the Nakhlites with other collectors and scientists,
> too.
>
> Things are getting worse when it comes to the
> Shergottites.
> It all started off with "(Un-)Lucky 13", DaG 476 and
> its first
> pairing DaG 489. When the first pieces hit the
> market dealers
> were accused of selling fake material or of selling
> pieces of
> the one as the other. And things were totaly getting
> out of
> hands when DaG 670 and DaG 735 (and recently DaG
> 876) appeared.
> Now the finders were accused of having withheld this
> finds to
> the meteoritic community just to hide the real TKW
> and to keep
> the prices high as long as possible.
>
> When the gold rush came to Oman two new Shergottites
> were found,
> SaU 005 (and its pairings SaU 008 / 051) and Dhofar
> 019. It's
> true, at least the first ones bear a striking
> similarity to
> the DaGs, but this only caused a new debate about
> possible fraud
> instead of focussing on a possible source crater
> pairing.
> The finders were accused of having found new pieces
> of the DaG
> Shergottite in Lybia and having those pieces
> translocated to
> Oman just to fake a new find. Scientific
> institutions started
> to engage themselfs as public prosecutors studying
> every grain
> of sand attached to the new meteorites to prove the
> fake. How
> about it, Matteo? Any news about that? (By that, I
> don't believe
> in a fraud, anyway, since those meteorites were
> found by three
> independent teams.)
>
> The same with Los Angeles, when Bob Verish found two
> paired
> martian rocks in his backyard while clearing out
> some boxes
> in which he had put rocks from trips through the
> Mojave desert
> years ago. Bob wasn't accused openly (as far as I
> know) but
> the rumour went that those stones actually were
> found in
> Northwest Africa and not in the United States. I
> heard this
> boring story from dealers, collectors and - mostly -
> hunters
> on each and every fair I visited.
>
> And now the story is going on with NWA 480, the
> latest member
> of the SNC family, as it seems. The Pellisons were
> obviously
> delighted to state on this list:
>
> "The CNES (National French Spatial Studies Center),
> associated
> on Mars rock sample return program, gives $55,000 of
> public
> funds to a meteorite merchant, the same one who had
> created
> the false Tagounite strewnfield with no respect for
> meteoritic
> science, helping him to continue the plundering of
> Saharan
> meteorites with unknown location."
>
> Obviously the "funds" were payed to the unnamed
> "plunderer"
> (why are you afraid of calling things and persons by
> name,
> messieurs? It's not my task, anyway) for giving 25g
> of the
> total 28g of the new SNC to science, isn't it? You
> don't want
> to start that cheap propaganda of distrust and
> defamation all
> over again, don't you?
> If you have hard facts, real facts to prove that
> there is
> ANY fraud, so please share it openly like you share
> your
> precious strewnfields. But if your just jealous
> because some
> "rival" has found something more interesting to
> scientist and
> collectors (or something that's easier to sell) than
> your CO3
> then simply shut up and go back to desert to find
> some SNCs or
> Lunars yourself. At least I'm sick of this
> quasi-meteoritic
> mobbing in the name of "true science"!
>
> As a final note: personaly I don't believe in
> metaphysical
> properties of the SNCs as pieces of the planet Mars
> that is
> well known as the god of war and discord in ancient
> mythology.
> I think the roots of this dilemma are envy and greed
> as well
> as a lack of sobriety, trust and appreciation. But
> who
> knows ;-)
>
> I for myself would like to thank all the finders in
> the first
> place. Without you I wouldn't have got the
> opportunity to
> touch the Red Planet and to feel the wonder. Thanks!
>
> All the best,
> Norbert Classen
>
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>
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=====
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Received on Sat 12 May 2001 04:14:45 PM PDT