[meteorite-list] Re: facing history ( was Hunting scams)

From: Matt <Matt_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 09:44:35 2004
Message-ID: <008901c0a283$41417c00$c3dc7fa5_at_state.co.us>

I am glad it was "salshed into slices" so I could own some and so scientists
could study it! Hooooooooooorah!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Franco" <MICH-FRANCO_at_wanadoo.fr>
To: "Mike Farmer" <farmerm_at_concentric.net>
Cc: "METEORITELIST" <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 12:07 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: facing history ( was Hunting scams)

History will rember that Mike Farmer as salshed into slices a wondefull
unique oriented lunar meteorite, that Franco was not happy with that fact
and expressed it.

History will also remember that the Francos have found Dag 565 a primitive
achondrite still unclassiifed (analysis started in 1998) that might prove
something for both ureilites and winonaites parent bodies.

And perhaps you Mike Framer will rember when I expalined how emotionnal was
for both of us to find a meteorite from the ground. Emotion, heard of it ?

Best wishes

100 Chemin des Campènes
  ----- Message d'origine -----
  De : Mike Farmer
  À : Michel Franco
  Cc : MeteorHntr_at_aol.com ; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
  Envoyé : jeudi 1 mars 2001 16:39
  Objet : Hunting scams

  Why would you Care? How would you know who I bought my rock from if you
never bought any meteorites in Morocco? Mr. Franco, it seems that you know
the dealers but you never deal with them?
  Don't worry about how I pay for my trips, is it your business? you say you
only find, but I have a very hard tome believing that. All I keep hearing
from you and others is that you only search, ALL I keep hearing from the
Moroccans is that the "Hunters" buy,
  And I keep getting shit from the French (several different people) that I
should not go to Morocco, that it is "their territory" If none of you buy,
then it matters not if I buy there. You may believe in the inherent goodness
of mankind, I believe what I see, and that is the some serious BULLSHIT has
been passed of to us all in the last 4 years by some people. What do the
Moroccans have to gain or lose by telling us that the French and some
Germans buy from them? Why do you think that they make this up. And when I
say French, it is simply to avoid saying the long list of names that I have
who buy there. Just tell me why they might spout off all of these names, if
it is not true. Why do you think that they lie? What do they gain, do you
think I pay more if they tell me that many French "Hunters" buy barrels of
  As far as my stone goes, rest assured that proper payment has been and is
still under way for those who helped us. We paid dearly for a stone which we
did not know the type. When I bought items that turned out to be non
meteoritic, I was told "Too bad" this is business" Take your chance. Well,
we did with this one, and we hit pay dirt. So they took their chance, they
sold it for over 10 to 20 YEARS salary for an average Moroccan, and they
were quite happy,
  now I am happy too. Why can't you be, instead of getting pissed and giving
me shit.
  It seems that the only people who are not happy for us are A, the FRENCH
HUNTERS, why? If they are hunters, then they do not buy, this stone was
bought, so it would not have fallen into their hands in the first place as
they say that they DO NOT BUY. So I am seeing some interesting
contradictions here, if you don't buy, and you only hunt, then you would
NEVER have got this stone.
  Or is it that you hunt, and you also buy the RARE ONES?
  The plot thickens on the entire "Hunting thing".
  Does this make sense?
  I would like feedback from the list, if these people only hunt, why are
they pissed that I BOUGHT a certain stone?
  Mike Farmer

  Michel Franco wrote:

    Farmer wrote<I do not doubt it, but after the Dar al Gani mars rocks, it
would seem that some dishonesty was occuring there, popping out a new piece
every few months, as though they did not recognize it from the start as the
same damn thing.
    Mike Farmer > Seems that he should go in some easy places like DaG and
prospect himself. he will certainly find all his meteorites on the same day.
When some one see dishonest people everywhere, I feel unconfortable. I m a
Rouseauist: mankind is good, with few exceptions, very few! I tried to
explain one to Mike Farmer that Dag 476 and Dag 494 were not found by the
same team. And that all other Dag SNC were found during separate
expeditions.I never received any comment about that point. Mike you should
go back yourself to the hunring field, and pick them up yourself without any
backers for your trips. $10 per gram was great deal, I hope you have already
sent a large reward to Ahmed Amouri. My two crusts. Michel FRANCO
         MeteorHntr_at_aol.com wrote:

        In a message dated 2/28/01 1:44:23 PM Central Standard Time,

          Dear List Members:

          What is the official word? Are all the Dhofar's 025, 026 an 081
          Look forward to hearing from everyone.

          Greg Shanos

        Hello Greg,

        I have both he 025 and the 026 for sale and there is nothing
remotely similar
        to them.

        With the Dhofar specimens, there is honest reporting of all the
details of
        the find; such as the date of find, exact longitude and latitude of
        finds, accurate TKW info and the like. Also, these specimens have
been found
        by professional meteorite hunters and not simply gathered by nomads
and then
        run through a system of handlers before brought to market like most
of the
        NWA specimens. This is not to be meant as a "slam" against the
NWA's; I have
        sold a few NWA's myself and I will sell more in the future, it is
simply a
        statement of fact.

        I think Mike Farmer has been the most open about explaining the
state of
        meteorite affairs in Morocco. It is important to know however, the
        situation is far from like that.

        While much of a meteorite's value should stand on what type of a
meteorite it
        is, not based on the exact location where it was found; one very
        consideration in determining a potential value is the Total Known
        found. It might be easy to figure out that all (or at least most
all) of the
        EH3 specimen found in the Sahara will (or should be) paired, it is
next to
        impossible to know if your Saharan H5 specimen is one of a a
thousand stones
        from one fall, or if it might be the entire mass of a fall. Or you
might not
        know if next week a new fragment for the same fall of your new
        might increase the TKW by 10 fold.

        Thoughts to consider.

        As to the details of your specific question about pairing, you can
find a lot
        of great information at Washington University's site here:


        I hope this helps.


        Steve Arnold
Received on Thu 01 Mar 2001 02:10:17 PM PST

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