[meteorite-list] Subject: Re: Lake Eyre meteorite 'Crown property',

From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 22:36:42 -0500
Message-ID: <CAKBPJW9urgSt7_mtjUqqyy7RsQUfj2cn3D=KT23vcO+Ghqvocw_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hi Graham,

I guess I do get a bit tiresome. That would be a kind description. I
already messaged back and forth with Ian in private and there are no
hard feelings between us. It's just a complicated issue that spawned
some crossed wires.

Actually, I prefer bigger specimens personally, and I try to buy/keep
the biggest my budget will afford.

Best regards and happy huntings,

MikeG





On 1/16/16, Graham <grahamac at tpg.com.au> wrote:
> Mike G.
> Hi Michael,
> Sorry for the mix up Shawn,
>
> Mike we are all tired of listening to you go on and on about your micro
> meteorites and feel you have to defend them!
> You got ticked off simply because Ian mentioned people breaking up
> meteorites, Well Mike I didn't see your name mentioned ?
> Ian was clearly talking about Australian meteorites, as you were told in the
>
> letter from Ian and Myself!
>
> Mike your way of selling is what you choose so why do you get so defensive
> about it M8?
> You have clearly gotten confused over Ian's combined comment and I hope you
>
> now understand your mistake?
> I don't find it necessary to say anymore as the truth speaks for itself.
>
> Cheers to all
> Graham
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks
> Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2016 12:10 PM
> To: Graham
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lake Eyre meteorite 'Crown
> property', and Shawns missunderstanding!
>
> Hi Graham and Innocent Bystanders,
>
> I am not "Shawn", but it appears you are replying to things I said, so
> I will respond. My name is Michael by the way. :)
>
> All I heard Ian say was that these Guy?s are doing a great service to
>> meteorite studies in Australia and are achieving excellent results!
>> You haven't listened to what Ian explained in his letter that here in
>> Australia each State and Territory have different laws concerning
>> meteorite
>> ownership and it gets very complicated at times!
>
> I read it. I am as familiar as a non-resident can be about Australia's
> legal situation in regards to meteorites. There was nothing new in
> the original post about the legalities of Australian meteorites. I
> know that different states and territories have different laws in
> regards to them. The US states also have differing and sometimes
> contradictory laws, but meteorites are scarcely (if at all) mention in
> US state law. The regulations Adam and others have mentioned are
> Federal here.
>
>> The new Digital Desert Fireball Network have contributed so much to the
>> study of meteorites, What is wrong with what they are doing and why do
>> you
>> have a problem with this?
>
> I don't have a problem with this, I think it's great. I wish them
> continued and greater success. I both envy and appreciate what they
> and others do.
>
> "All I heard Ian say was that"
>
> That wasn't all Ian said, he capped off his post with a broad
> judgement of how much fraud is in the meteorite world and tossed in
> "tiny fragments" for good measure - a backhand comment at best to
> micromount and crumb collectors. As someone who collects small
> specimens (amongst others), the insinuation that specimen size somehow
> equates to fraud is offensive to me as a collector and a trader of
> such specimens. The statement implies that small ("tiny") specimens
> cannot be trusted because they cannot be visually paired - which is
> something one is not supposed to do anyway. I assume what this is
> meant, since a microprobe or XRF only requires a tiny crumb to provide
> data.
>
> Where have you been hiding Shawn?
>> Have you had your head stuck in the ground?
>> Ian was standing up for the scientists and Governments and stating the
>> truth.
>
> I have Shawn locked up in a steel drum with air holes punched in it.
> It sits in my basement and I taunt him regularly with a pointed stick.
> ;)
>
> I have been hiding on the Met List, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram,
> Pinterest, email, news feeds, etc. I read the same journals and
> websites that most other List members do. I see obvious fakes and
> frauds on eBay all the time - only a halfwit would bite on some of
> those deals. Thousands of dollars for a bubbly slag from a seller in
> Romania with zero feedback, no thanks. Or, the same thing from a new
> seller in Turkey claiming it is Bingol. No thanks.
>
>
>
> Facebook is a mess like eBay. Good deals from reputable sellers, and
> bad deals from scammers. Most informed buyers can tell the difference
> pretty quick. Google has a long memory that is available to anyone and
> most online bad dealings leave a digital record.
>
>> "Ian was standing up for the scientists and Governments and stating the
>> truth.
>
> Yes, and I agree with the truth regardless of what channel it's being
> broadcast on. I disagree with the notion (or implication) that the US
> or global meteorite collector market would be better served by
> stricter laws or more regulation. People who support increased
> regulation usually inflate perceived threats to help validate the
> necessity for those regulations. Ian sees fraud everywhere. I see a
> bunch of fools trying to rip off other fools and none of them are
> doing a very good job of it apparently. The one case of meteorite
> fraud ever to go before a judge resulted in the guilty party being
> sanctioned and relief given to the claimants. Somebody tried to pass
> something off for something else, sold it, and then was caught,
> brought to court, fined, sanctioned, and ultimately jailed for
> violating the terms. Seems like the system worked fine with the laws
> already in place that were enforced. What I am getting at is, I do not
> see any more fraud in the meteorite collector market than I do for any
> other collectible that has monetary value. Look at the gemstone market
> - there is far far more fraud in the gemstone market than in the
> meteorite market. The black market for gemstones makes the so-called
> "meteorite black market" look like nickels and dimes.
>
>> You know exactly who the people who steal meteorites from other countries
>> are and some have been jailed for it and some not!
>> Australian meteorites were plundered in the past and then claimed to be
>> NWA?s Look it up before you comment.
>> The Nova is just one example !
>
> Yes, we all know the same stories about the same handful of people. We
> are literally talking about a handful of people you could comfortably
> fit around your dining room table. There is no vast guild of
> international meteorite poachers defying authorities and smuggling
> vast fortunes of forbidden space rocks into the cabinets of wealthy
> organized crime figures. (Or, so the New York Times might have you
> think otherwise.) The narrative that a material/commodity/resource is
> somehow inherently dangerous or prone to abuse is the first brick on
> the road to increased taxation and regulation. The "government" cannot
> guarantee the provenance of a meteorite, nor can a government
> authoritatively decide what a meteorite is. Only a microprobe and a
> grad student can tell if a rock is a meteorite to begin with.
>
> I think we are not in any fundamental disagreement about the important
> issues of scientific research, discovery, and advancement of the body
> of knowledge in the planetary sciences. Perhaps we have crossed some
> wires of communication or semantics about some of the associated
> issues of meteorite science - like commercialism, government
> regulation, and academic elitism. And all of those issues are
> intertwined with politics and bureaucracy to some degree. My position
> is, the less of those last two things, the better. (unless a clear and
> tangible need is evident).
>
> Best regards and Happy Huntings,
>
> MikeG
>
>
> On 1/16/16, Graham <grahamac at tpg.com.au> wrote:
>> Shawn you really need to listen to what is being said in this forum.
>> ,
>> All I heard Ian say was that these Guy?s are doing a great service to
>> meteorite studies in Australia and are achieving excellent results!
>> You haven't listened to what Ian explained in his letter that here in
>> Australia each State and Territory have different laws concerning
>> meteorite
>> ownership and it gets very complicated at times!
>>
>> The new Digital Desert Fireball Network have contributed so much to the
>> study of meteorites, What is wrong with what they are doing and why do
>> you
>> have a problem with this?
>> Most meteorites they have found have already gone to the appropriate
>> museum?s with their blessing and the others will shortly go there After
>> all
>> this is what they are all about!
>>
>> If you look at Australia you will see a huge country with massive spaces
>> in
>> between so it takes longer to get around,
>> If you want to compare Australia and America they are around the same
>> size
>> but we only have 25 million people as the larger part is the centre and
>> that
>> is all desert!
>> ( thus ends the history Lesson)
>>
>> Ian eloquently spoke of important issues. and also mentioned:
>> (I constantly see deception, fraud, ridiculous pricing,
>> Items stolen out of countries,
>> Governments and scientists disrespected,
>> Incorrectly described items, dubious provenance,
>> destroyed samples, tiny fragments, endless
>> provenance hand balling etc etc)
>>
>> You commented that:
>> (I do not see the kind of rampant fraud and chicanery that Ian is
>> talking about. )
>>
>> Where have you been hiding Shawn?
>> Have you had your head stuck in the ground?
>> Ian was standing up for the scientists and Governments and stating the
>> truth.
>>
>> You know exactly who the people who steal meteorites from other countries
>> are and some have been jailed for it and some not!
>> Australian meteorites were plundered in the past and then claimed to be
>> NWA?s Look it up before you comment.
>> The Nova is just one example !
>>
>> I am not going to write a long boring letter, I will let the facts speak
>> for
>> themselves and we all need to obey the Law of each country we live in or
>> visit.
>>
>> Cheers all
>> and well said Ian
>>
>>
>
>
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Received on Sat 16 Jan 2016 10:36:42 PM PST