[meteorite-list] Subject: Re: Lake Eyre meteorite 'Crown property',
From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 22:36:42 -0500 Message-ID: <CAKBPJW9urgSt7_mtjUqqyy7RsQUfj2cn3D=KT23vcO+Ghqvocw_at_mail.gmail.com> Hi Graham, I guess I do get a bit tiresome. That would be a kind description. I already messaged back and forth with Ian in private and there are no hard feelings between us. It's just a complicated issue that spawned some crossed wires. Actually, I prefer bigger specimens personally, and I try to buy/keep the biggest my budget will afford. Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG On 1/16/16, Graham <grahamac at tpg.com.au> wrote: > Mike G. > Hi Michael, > Sorry for the mix up Shawn, > > Mike we are all tired of listening to you go on and on about your micro > meteorites and feel you have to defend them! > You got ticked off simply because Ian mentioned people breaking up > meteorites, Well Mike I didn't see your name mentioned ? > Ian was clearly talking about Australian meteorites, as you were told in the > > letter from Ian and Myself! > > Mike your way of selling is what you choose so why do you get so defensive > about it M8? > You have clearly gotten confused over Ian's combined comment and I hope you > > now understand your mistake? > I don't find it necessary to say anymore as the truth speaks for itself. > > Cheers to all > Graham > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2016 12:10 PM > To: Graham > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lake Eyre meteorite 'Crown > property', and Shawns missunderstanding! > > Hi Graham and Innocent Bystanders, > > I am not "Shawn", but it appears you are replying to things I said, so > I will respond. My name is Michael by the way. :) > > All I heard Ian say was that these Guy?s are doing a great service to >> meteorite studies in Australia and are achieving excellent results! >> You haven't listened to what Ian explained in his letter that here in >> Australia each State and Territory have different laws concerning >> meteorite >> ownership and it gets very complicated at times! > > I read it. I am as familiar as a non-resident can be about Australia's > legal situation in regards to meteorites. There was nothing new in > the original post about the legalities of Australian meteorites. I > know that different states and territories have different laws in > regards to them. The US states also have differing and sometimes > contradictory laws, but meteorites are scarcely (if at all) mention in > US state law. The regulations Adam and others have mentioned are > Federal here. > >> The new Digital Desert Fireball Network have contributed so much to the >> study of meteorites, What is wrong with what they are doing and why do >> you >> have a problem with this? > > I don't have a problem with this, I think it's great. I wish them > continued and greater success. I both envy and appreciate what they > and others do. > > "All I heard Ian say was that" > > That wasn't all Ian said, he capped off his post with a broad > judgement of how much fraud is in the meteorite world and tossed in > "tiny fragments" for good measure - a backhand comment at best to > micromount and crumb collectors. As someone who collects small > specimens (amongst others), the insinuation that specimen size somehow > equates to fraud is offensive to me as a collector and a trader of > such specimens. The statement implies that small ("tiny") specimens > cannot be trusted because they cannot be visually paired - which is > something one is not supposed to do anyway. I assume what this is > meant, since a microprobe or XRF only requires a tiny crumb to provide > data. > > Where have you been hiding Shawn? >> Have you had your head stuck in the ground? >> Ian was standing up for the scientists and Governments and stating the >> truth. > > I have Shawn locked up in a steel drum with air holes punched in it. > It sits in my basement and I taunt him regularly with a pointed stick. > ;) > > I have been hiding on the Met List, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, > Pinterest, email, news feeds, etc. I read the same journals and > websites that most other List members do. I see obvious fakes and > frauds on eBay all the time - only a halfwit would bite on some of > those deals. Thousands of dollars for a bubbly slag from a seller in > Romania with zero feedback, no thanks. Or, the same thing from a new > seller in Turkey claiming it is Bingol. No thanks. > > > > Facebook is a mess like eBay. Good deals from reputable sellers, and > bad deals from scammers. Most informed buyers can tell the difference > pretty quick. Google has a long memory that is available to anyone and > most online bad dealings leave a digital record. > >> "Ian was standing up for the scientists and Governments and stating the >> truth. > > Yes, and I agree with the truth regardless of what channel it's being > broadcast on. I disagree with the notion (or implication) that the US > or global meteorite collector market would be better served by > stricter laws or more regulation. People who support increased > regulation usually inflate perceived threats to help validate the > necessity for those regulations. Ian sees fraud everywhere. I see a > bunch of fools trying to rip off other fools and none of them are > doing a very good job of it apparently. The one case of meteorite > fraud ever to go before a judge resulted in the guilty party being > sanctioned and relief given to the claimants. Somebody tried to pass > something off for something else, sold it, and then was caught, > brought to court, fined, sanctioned, and ultimately jailed for > violating the terms. Seems like the system worked fine with the laws > already in place that were enforced. What I am getting at is, I do not > see any more fraud in the meteorite collector market than I do for any > other collectible that has monetary value. Look at the gemstone market > - there is far far more fraud in the gemstone market than in the > meteorite market. The black market for gemstones makes the so-called > "meteorite black market" look like nickels and dimes. > >> You know exactly who the people who steal meteorites from other countries >> are and some have been jailed for it and some not! >> Australian meteorites were plundered in the past and then claimed to be >> NWA?s Look it up before you comment. >> The Nova is just one example ! > > Yes, we all know the same stories about the same handful of people. We > are literally talking about a handful of people you could comfortably > fit around your dining room table. There is no vast guild of > international meteorite poachers defying authorities and smuggling > vast fortunes of forbidden space rocks into the cabinets of wealthy > organized crime figures. (Or, so the New York Times might have you > think otherwise.) The narrative that a material/commodity/resource is > somehow inherently dangerous or prone to abuse is the first brick on > the road to increased taxation and regulation. The "government" cannot > guarantee the provenance of a meteorite, nor can a government > authoritatively decide what a meteorite is. Only a microprobe and a > grad student can tell if a rock is a meteorite to begin with. > > I think we are not in any fundamental disagreement about the important > issues of scientific research, discovery, and advancement of the body > of knowledge in the planetary sciences. Perhaps we have crossed some > wires of communication or semantics about some of the associated > issues of meteorite science - like commercialism, government > regulation, and academic elitism. And all of those issues are > intertwined with politics and bureaucracy to some degree. My position > is, the less of those last two things, the better. (unless a clear and > tangible need is evident). > > Best regards and Happy Huntings, > > MikeG > > > On 1/16/16, Graham <grahamac at tpg.com.au> wrote: >> Shawn you really need to listen to what is being said in this forum. >> , >> All I heard Ian say was that these Guy?s are doing a great service to >> meteorite studies in Australia and are achieving excellent results! >> You haven't listened to what Ian explained in his letter that here in >> Australia each State and Territory have different laws concerning >> meteorite >> ownership and it gets very complicated at times! >> >> The new Digital Desert Fireball Network have contributed so much to the >> study of meteorites, What is wrong with what they are doing and why do >> you >> have a problem with this? >> Most meteorites they have found have already gone to the appropriate >> museum?s with their blessing and the others will shortly go there After >> all >> this is what they are all about! >> >> If you look at Australia you will see a huge country with massive spaces >> in >> between so it takes longer to get around, >> If you want to compare Australia and America they are around the same >> size >> but we only have 25 million people as the larger part is the centre and >> that >> is all desert! >> ( thus ends the history Lesson) >> >> Ian eloquently spoke of important issues. and also mentioned: >> (I constantly see deception, fraud, ridiculous pricing, >> Items stolen out of countries, >> Governments and scientists disrespected, >> Incorrectly described items, dubious provenance, >> destroyed samples, tiny fragments, endless >> provenance hand balling etc etc) >> >> You commented that: >> (I do not see the kind of rampant fraud and chicanery that Ian is >> talking about. ) >> >> Where have you been hiding Shawn? >> Have you had your head stuck in the ground? >> Ian was standing up for the scientists and Governments and stating the >> truth. >> >> You know exactly who the people who steal meteorites from other countries >> are and some have been jailed for it and some not! >> Australian meteorites were plundered in the past and then claimed to be >> NWA?s Look it up before you comment. >> The Nova is just one example ! >> >> I am not going to write a long boring letter, I will let the facts speak >> for >> themselves and we all need to obey the Law of each country we live in or >> visit. >> >> Cheers all >> and well said Ian >> >> > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com > Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone > Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone > Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------- Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone -------------------------------------------------------------Received on Sat 16 Jan 2016 10:36:42 PM PST |
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