[meteorite-list] Was Feb 11, 2012, Qinhai province, Fall - short Argentina question

From: Martin Altmann <altmann_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 17:50:21 +0200
Message-ID: <005c01ce57cd$3de14a10$b9a3de30$_at_de>

Addendum.

It's article 296 of the Indian constitution.
Also famous meteoricist Hey reported on the last meeting of the UNESCO
Working Group on Meteorites in 1967,
that according to that article meteorites are regarded in India as "bona
vacantia" (id est: ownerless objects).

Anyway,
I could find over the years only a very few countries,
where meteorites automatically are property of the state
(now not regarding any landowner-finder questions, but general national laws
- hence where the meteorite is property of the state because it is a
meteorite).

These are:

Some provincial federal states in Australia.
South Africa
Namibia

Countries explicitly mentioning meteorites in their national laws are:

Argentina
Botswana
Canada (have still to read....)
Lesotho
New Zealand
The Philippines
Poland
Slovakia
Swaziland


For clarifying, cause these were most often mentioned else, suspected to
have specific restrictions:

China (pers.comm Geological Survey of China)
Once discussed to introduce a meteorite law, but didn't install any.

Brazil, other than once wrongly reported by the former IMCA-president has no
meteorite laws, neither any export regulations.

Oman has no "meteorites" in their laws.

Switzerland has no "meteorites" in their laws.

UNESCO & Unidroit conventions have no "meteorites" in their suggestion
lists.

India has no "meteorites" in their laws.

If you know more countries with meteorite laws,
please add them.

But for that purpose, please be sure, that these laws contain the term
"meteorites".
Laws containing vague terms like "treasure find, resource, antiquity,
artifact, object of scientific interest, natural monument, movable heritage,
object of cultural relevance"...and so on are of no interest,
as such terms are subject to interpretation (in case of a court)
and not helpful.

If you want to regulate meteorites, write "meteorite" in your law.

More I couldn't find yet, regarding national laws. Problem is, I'm not
trained like Douglas Schmitt and not so well paid, that I could visit the
libraries of the world, hunting for meteorite laws. And many countries
haven't their legal codex published yet on internet or not published
English, French, Spanish...


Now to my question.

It's said, that there is now a general ban of exports for meteorites in
Argentina,
though I'm unable to find that very law.
Does anyone has it?

I have only the following laws:

26.306 (2007): which converted meteorites into a moveable heritage in the
sense of and to handle like given in

19.943 (1972): the ratification of the UNESCO 1970 convention
And
25.527 (1995): the implemention of the UNIDROIT convention

(Well and of course the collecting ban in the Chaco-province exist too.
3.562 (1990))

In none of these laws I can find, that moveable/cultural heritage is
excluded from exportation or not,
neither what to do, if you want to export it legally.


Any help?


Second question is about Algeria,
Nothing to find on web.

So I asked a IMCA-Director to contact and to ask Prof. Djelloul Belhai
(Universit? des Sciences et de la technologie Houari Boumediene) to supply
us with the wordings of the specific laws, cause in one of his publications
he once mentioned the "draconian" punishments introduced for
meteorite-plundering.
Has that meanwhile happened?


Thanks in advance,
And don't bash me,
My position is clear: No human is illegal. No Meteorite is illegal.
(and "Free Milly!", I confess, I gave up).
Best,
Martin


And disclaimer, disclaimer, disclaimer, I'm no lawyer, by no means these
informationshall be regarded as da truth or valid or as complete. Ect.ppp.
For reliable information contact your next IMCA-office.

PPS: By far Kuhlest meteorite law on Earth has definitely Swaziland - worthy
for a Harvey-Award!

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Martin
Altmann
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. Mai 2013 16:17
An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Feb 11, 2012, Qinhai province, Fall

Hi Mike,

indeed, check the archives, I'm busy.
All that exportation-ban-and-all-belongs-to-the-state-blah-blah was based on
some administrative orders of the 19th century, where the clerks were
advised where to forward meteorites to, if they get hands on, hence touching
the ownership-question in no way.

Today you have it in the Indian constitution, that meteorites don't belong
to the Republic.

The paragraph I gave here on the list.
Which says, that all finds, which before were bestowed upon the King, shall
be property of the Republic.

King: In the short time between independence and the formation of the new
constitution, The English King was degraded from an Emperor of India to a
King of India.

Hence de facto it's the British Common law adapted to the new Republic.
And as we all know, in England and Scotland, the finds of gold and silver go
to Queen Lizzy, but the finds of meteorites go to Rob Elliott.

See also the very funny Monty-Python-style debate in the House of Lords
about a bill, which asked to make all meteorites to a property of the state
(the link to the protocol I gave once here on the list).

Anyway,
Meteorite laws - that is the (self-chosen) job of the IMCA, so most probably
they can answer all your questions of that legal complex in a more qualified
way.

Best!
Martin

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Galactic
Stone & Ironworks
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. Mai 2013 04:32
An: Greg Catterton
Cc: Meteorite List; robertbeauford at rocketmail.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Feb 11, 2012, Qinhai province, Fall

Here we go again with Katol.

Someone show me the law against exporting meteorites from India.

And I don't mean show me a 150-year old British Empire mandate that no
longer applies.

I have spoken to people in India about this and they all say the same thing
- they know of no modern Indian law against meteorite exportation.

Whoever started this rumor is engaging in speculation at best and they have
an agenda at the worst.

AFAIK, Katol is legal to own. If someone can produce a reliable and
authoritative source who is familiar with Indian law and that person can
state that it is indeed illegal and point to the relevant laws, then I will
change my mind.

Best regards,

MikeG

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest -
http://pinterest.com/galacticstone
RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
-------------------------------------------------------------
On 5/22/13, Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com> wrote:
> thing is, katol is illegal to own or export without permit...
>
> Greg
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
>
>
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Received on Thu 23 May 2013 11:50:21 AM PDT