[meteorite-list] Novato update

From: Alan Rubin <aerubin_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 08:48:27 -0700
Message-ID: <A3B42CA041CB44D8BF4AA6CD98DC485A_at_igpp.ucla.edu>

I received a sample of Novato for classification not too long after it fell.
I made a thin section, did the microscopy and probe work and classified the
stone. This was the first thing that was done. I am not working on any
paper about the meteorite. I was asked to cut up the small piece I was sent
and then send those pieces to different researchers for the gathering of
additional data. I sent those out and now have almost no sample left at
UCLA save the original thin section. I was told that eventually the
requisite amount would be deposited at UCLA as the type specimen after some
additional research was done on the specimen. My only interest at this
point is to receive the specimen, log it in to the UCLA collection and
inform the NOMCOM that everything is now in order. I'm not holding anything
up.
Alan


Alan Rubin
Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics
University of California
3845 Slichter Hall
603 Charles Young Dr. E
Los Angeles, CA 90095-1567
phone: 310-825-3202
e-mail: aerubin at ucla.edu
website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Farmer" <mike at meteoriteguy.com>
To: "Carl Agee" <agee at unm.edu>
Cc: "Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>;
"Robert Verish" <bolidechaser at yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Novato update


>I seem to think this is a control issue. Someone wants total control over
>the meteorite. Sad to dominate a meteorite fall.
> Never seen this type of action before.
> Submission changes nothing about the science or the papers released later.
> It is simply the act of registering the meteorite officially. I think they
> don't want to release the type specimen or else the receiving institution
> (UCLA) or (NASA) will then possibly release papers outside the control of
> the "Consortium"?
> My two kopeks.
> Michael
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 1, 2013, at 10:50 AM, Carl Agee <agee at unm.edu> wrote:
>
>> I'm having a hard time understanding this "problem" with Novato. Since
>> when do deposit samples not get analyzed and worked on? Maybe I'm
>> missing something here but the way I do it, is the sample gets ID-ed
>> and classified and then if it merits further research that happens
>> next, in that order. For example, you cannot submit an abstract to
>> LPSC or MetSoc on an unclassified or provisional meteorite.
>> Classification is absolutely the first thing that should happen.
>>
>> Carl Agee
>> --
>> Carl B. Agee
>> Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
>> Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
>> MSC03 2050
>> University of New Mexico
>> Albuquerque NM 87131-1126
>>
>> Tel: (505) 750-7172
>> Fax: (505) 277-3577
>> Email: agee at unm.edu
>> http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 7:53 PM, Michael Farmer <mike at meteoriteguy.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, hunting costs money, lots and lots of it. Ask me, I'm on the other
>>> side of the planet right now and western unions as coming in daily. No
>>> credit cards accepted where I am:)
>>> But we have responsibilities. Pay to play, including getting the type
>>> specimen properly curated. I am in 100% agreement with the noncom on
>>> this one.
>>> Science must come first.
>>>
>>> Michael Farmer
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On May 1, 2013, at 7:38 AM, robert crane <rrobber1 at msn.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The problem I have is every one should spend their hard earned money in
>>>> the field looking for these damn things to ease the people that don't
>>>> leave their driveway. I'm sorry before u bitch and complain get off
>>>> your ass and not spend time in Stewart Valley or in Franconia getting
>>>> DCA crap classified. Work in the field and contribute. Make a
>>>> contribution to science before u bitch about other people. Hunting
>>>> ain't free.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 30, 2013, at 5:19 PM, "Richard Montgomery"
>>>> <rickmont at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> One of the stones from this find was "lent" to the NASA team, with an
>>>>> open mind and naivte perhaps; a situation that definitely shook her by
>>>>> total surprise and dismay, when another finder of another stone
>>>>> offered a perspective. She wasn't pleased to learn that she may never
>>>>> see it again.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Verish"
>>>>> <bolidechaser at yahoo.com>
>>>>> To: "Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral"
>>>>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 9:34 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Novato update
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Rob,
>>>>> for clearing the air and getting this thread back on track.
>>>>> And now that the dust has settled, we're back to my original concern:
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do we have to wait for just the name to be approved?
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is the question I am posing to the List, stated another way:
>>>>>
>>>>> If everyone is in agreement with the Jenniskins arrangement, then why
>>>>> can't the Committee credit UCLA for the type specimen and move forward
>>>>> with approving at least the name "Novato" (if need be, at least
>>>>> provisionally)? I mean, what is the difference whether the type
>>>>> specimen goes first to UCLA, then goes to NASA, or vice-versa? I mean,
>>>>> for goodness sake, it's NASA we're talking about here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do we have to wait for the results from the consortium before we
>>>>> know the approved name of this meteorite?
>>>>> I mean, we didn't even have a consensus classification for Sutter's
>>>>> Mill, but that name still got approved! We didn't have to wait for the
>>>>> results of the consortium, then. Why now?
>>>>>
>>>>> But before I conclude, allow me to state several things
>>>>> FOR THE RECORD:
>>>>>
>>>>> Contrary to any unfounded assertions that may get printed on this
>>>>> List, there is no "problem" getting type-specimens from finders to
>>>>> researchers:
>>>>>
>>>>> There were 8 Sutter's Mill finds donated from finders & property
>>>>> owners.
>>>>> The name "Sutter's Mill" was approved BEFORE a classification could be
>>>>> agreed upon and long before the consortium published their results.
>>>>>
>>>>> There were 2 Battle Mountain specimens voluntarily donated by finders
>>>>> to researchers. The name "Battle Mountain" was approved 30 days after
>>>>> the fall. What delay?
>>>>>
>>>>> Other US falls with "no problems" getting type-specimens:
>>>>> Mifflin, Lorton, Whetstone Mtns, Ash Creek - no delays in name
>>>>> approval.
>>>>>
>>>>> Finders of the "Novato" meteorite were making arrangements to submit
>>>>> type specimens to researchers, prior to Jenniskins announcement to the
>>>>> Press that he was submitting the Webber stone as a type specimen. Days
>>>>> after his announcement is when I finally made my Novato find, and at
>>>>> that time I never dreamt we would be having this discussion in 2013.
>>>>> If it becomes necessary, I am prepared (as are other finders) to
>>>>> submit a type specimen to UCLA. But not until we all have been given a
>>>>> proper explanation.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Bob V.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Mon, 4/29/13, Matson, Robert D. <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Matson, Robert D. <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com>
>>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Novato update
>>>>>> To: "Pat Brown" <scientificlifestyle at hotmail.com>, "Jim Wooddell"
>>>>>> <jim.wooddell at suddenlink.net>, "Met List"
>>>>>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>>>> Date: Monday, April 29, 2013, 8:51 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been informed by one of the Novato finders that this is
>>>>>> a non-issue.
>>>>>> Dr. Jenniskens has long-since pledged to donate more
>>>>>> than adequate Novato type specimen to UCLA for it to be
>>>>>> approved by the Nomenclature Committee. That it hasn't happened
>>>>>> already is simply because Dr. Jenniskens wished to ensure that all
>>>>>> academic requests for meteoritical material were handled promptly.
>>>>>> 29 grams
>>>>>> of the first recovered stone were generously donated by Lisa
>>>>>> Webber to SETI for scientific analysis; of that, whatever is not
>>>>>> consumed
>>>>>> in destructive analyses has been promised to UCLA.
>>>>>> So there is no cause for alarm; people just need to be patient.
>>>>>> --Rob
>>>>> On Apr 30, 2013, at 4:32 AM, Robert Verish <bolidechaser at yahoo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually, it's still the "Novato" (provisional) meteorite.
>>>>>> It still is not in the Meteoritical Bulletin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the slice that Brien Cook originally cut with the intention
>>>>>> of submitting it to UCLA. But when he read that someone else was
>>>>>> going to supply the type-specimen, he then placed it on eBay.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would be nice if some Institute or consortium would make an offer
>>>>>> and try to repatriate this slice and make it a type-specimen so that
>>>>>> this US-fall could finally be made "official". All I'm saying is,
>>>>>> this "leaving an official-status hanging-in-mid-air" would never
>>>>>> happen in Canada. They would just simply buy the type-specimen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's time for the US to catch-up with Canada. It's time for a
>>>>>> change.
>>>>>> Bob V.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>
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>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Carl B. Agee
>> Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
>> Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
>> MSC03 2050
>> University of New Mexico
>> Albuquerque NM 87131-1126
>>
>> Tel: (505) 750-7172
>> Fax: (505) 277-3577
>> Email: agee at unm.edu
>> http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
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Received on Wed 01 May 2013 11:48:27 AM PDT