[meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Ancient Fossils inFireballFragments

From: Mark Ford <mark.ford_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:03:02 +0000
Message-ID: <3D7A674A041FFB4DBA68772C82FB4A07A00A1471_at_GAMMA2.ssl.atw>

Sure and I don't deny finding water or evidence of it is very exciting, but what I question, is 'the building blocks of life claim'. This is pure hype. Sure water and amino acids are essential for life, but I would question exactly how certain life is to evolve when water alone is present. The answer is it's massively more complex than just having flowing water. So finding water does not immediately mean there is any life. From some of the recent press and Nasa coverage, you would get the impression that finding water on Mars automatically means the hunt for extraterrestrial life is nearly over, but the truth is very far from it! It just makes it a tiny tiny amount more likely..

Mark



-----Original Message-----
From: Count Deiro [mailto:countdeiro at earthlink.net]
Sent: 13 March 2013 13:09
To: Mark Ford; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Ancient Fossils inFireballFragments

Hi List,

Mark has said "...I can't understand this fad for claims..." that... "we have found the building blocks of life"

There is no "fad" to reveal, however so unscientifically and hysterically by some in academia and the media, that we have discovered copious amounts of water on planets and moons. It is a scientific discovery that is found exciting to some, and disconcerting and threatening to others, as the evidence piles up that what was once a theory is now, because of Curiosity's right out of the box, successful, directed search, a scientific fact.

Where once one could only postulate that the "building blocks of life" might be on Mars because of what we "discovered" in Nakhla, AH84001 and recent NWAs, we now we know is a fact. And that information may not be remarkable to an educated you, even though you were clueless at one point in your studies, but to the masses it is big medicine and conjures up in billions of our fellow homonids the fear that their belief systems are losing the battle to scientific discovery. And the attitude adjustment ain't going to be pretty..especialy with meteorite worshipping Islam.

Incidentally, I think you've got the chicken before the egg on what came first on this orb, "building blocks" or "life". And no, you can't say that "every shred of evidence we have implies life as we know it started right here" without defining what you consider "life".

Be patient just a few more sols, my friend. We are about to witness discoveries that are going to "shred" much of civilization's core religious theologies and of a much lessor importance, resolve our difference in opinion.

Namaste,

Count Deiro
IMCA 3536

-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Ford <mark.ford at southernscientific.co.uk>
>Sent: Mar 13, 2013 2:41 AM
>To: "Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Ancient Fossils inFireballFragments
>
>
>Yep, and I can't understand this fad for claims that go along the lines of 'we have found the building blocks of life' , even yesterday the BBC announced that NASA had found 'building blocks of life' on Mars in the latest Rover sample, it turned out the BBC meant Hydrogen and Oxygen! - What Hydrogen/Oxygen in space? Wow there's a revelation - NOT!
>
>And Amino acids are not 'the building blocks of life' either, they are nothing like, they form quite naturally without ANY life being present.
>
>I never seen any evidence that life needed to seeded from outside the Earth, every shred of evidence we have implies life as we know it started right here. We could very well be the only life in the universe for all we know (although I find that statistically unlikely).
>
>It's like the search for water on Mars, all very interesting but I bet there are millions of planets in the universe with liquid water, and I'd bet most of them don't have any life on..
>
>Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
>Galactic Stone & Ironworks
>Sent: 12 March 2013 19:40
>To: Count Deiro
>Cc: Mike Groetz; Meteorite List
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Ancient Fossils
>inFireballFragments
>
>Hi Count, Phil, List, and Innocent Bystanders,
>
>I have to chime in a bit here on a more serious note.
>
>I think there is merit to the idea of panspermia. I am not convinced that panspermia explains any of the lifeforms or living processes here on Earth, but that does not mean the idea is baseless.
>
>We have been bombarded for billions of years by objects that contain water and the precursors of organic compounds, amino acids, etc.
>Injecting this material into the crucible of primitive Earth could result in changes to the evolution of life that would not have occurred without the addition of those extraterrestrial ingredients.
>We may owe our existence to comets and meteorites. Or maybe not.
>
>But, the most fervent proponents of the panspermia theory are throwing caution and scientific method to the wind. They look for evidence to support their views and they find it. They selectively ignore valid questions about their methodology and the integrity of their evidence.
>
>Wickramasinghe is not doing the panspermia theory any favors. Whether or not there is any validity to the theory is trumped by his questionable methods. Also, publishing anything at all in the so-called "Journal of Cosmology" is not the way to gain any respect or consideration.
>
>A lot of people want to believe that panspermia played a role in the development of life on Earth and elsewhere - it's an enticing and romantic idea that opens many doors of possibility for the frequency of life in the cosmos. But Wickramasinghe is not convincing me of this. I bet the credible proponents of the theory wish they could squelch this guy, because he is adding a lot noise to the panspermia signal.
>
>Best regards,
>
>MikeG
>
>PS - I do happen to believe in "panspermia", but please don't put me in
>Wickramasinghe's camp. ;)
>
>--
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com
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>-------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>On 3/12/13, Count Deiro <countdeiro at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi Phil,
>>
>> I haven't read Wickramasinge. I do hold stock in panspermic theory.
>> In particular, the findings of water, amino acids, etc. in the
>> meteorites I mentioned. The NASA/JPL paper "New Evidence of Life
>> Forms in Martian Meteorites" descibing and illustrating what seven of
>> their best have concluded are life forms in Nakhla and AH84001 was
>> particularly convincing to me.
>>
>> That SUV sized lab that we spent a few hundred million to put on
>> Mars, was sent there for the admitted purpose of solving our
>> disagreement for us. You may have watched and listened to the first
>> report of Curiosity's findings today streamed on the web. The Nasa
>> team was about to pee their pants having the opportunity to confirm
>> that in the first drilling of a rock on Mars, they have proven an
>> environment existed that would have beeen amiable to life.
>>
>> It will get better....
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Guido
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Joshua Tree Earth & Space Museum <dorifry at embarqmail.com>
>>>Sent: Mar 12, 2013 9:42 AM
>>>To: Count Deiro <countdeiro at earthlink.net>, Galactic Stone &
>>>Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
>>>Cc: Mike Groetz <mpg4444 at gmail.com>, Meteorite List
>>><meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Ancient Fossils
>>>inFireballFragments
>>>
>>>Hello Count,
>>>
>>>All that stuff has been debunked long ago, no need to beat dead horses.
>>>That is unless some new evidence has been discovered. If you have new
>>>evidence, I'd love to hear it.
>>>
>>>Seriously, you think the work of Chandra Wickramasinghe is worthy of
>>>discussion? Please proceed.....
>>>
>>>Phil Whitmer
>>>Joshua Tree Earth & Space Museum
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Count Deiro" <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
>>>To: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>; "Joshua
>>>Tree Earth & Space Museum" <dorifry at embarqmail.com>
>>>Cc: "Mike Groetz" <mpg4444 at gmail.com>; "Meteorite List"
>>><meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:32 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Ancient Fossils
>>>inFireballFragments
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi List,
>>>>
>>>> Meteorite Mike has said ".. are hereby suspended..." and Phil wrote
>>>> "..too dumb to discuss.."
>>>>
>>>> Darn. I was hoping to sell my Nakhla, Murchison and Allende
>>>> specimens, to
>>>>
>>>> mention just a few.
>>>>
>>>> Wait till all those guys and gals, with the three letters after
>>>> their names, engaged in writing and publishing papers supporting
>>>> the presence of fossilized nano-bacteria, biomorphs and elements
>>>> that postulate pansermia, find out that their work "is too dumb to
>>>> discuss"!
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Count Deiro
>>>> IMCA 3536
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
>>>>>Sent: Mar 12, 2013 7:59 AM
>>>>>To: Joshua Tree Earth & Space Museum <dorifry at embarqmail.com>
>>>>>Cc: Mike Groetz <mpg4444 at gmail.com>, Meteorite List
>>>>><meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Ancient Fossils
>>>>>in FireballFragments
>>>>>
>>>>>All ancient life-bearing meteorites, diatom-bearing meteorites,
>>>>>red-rain particles, and panspermia chondrites are hereby suspended
>>>>>until further notice....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook -
>>>>>http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>>>>>Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest -
>>>>>http://pinterest.com/galacticstone
>>>>>RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On 3/12/13, Joshua Tree Earth & Space Museum
>>>>><dorifry at embarqmail.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>> Too dumb to even discuss!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phil Whitmer
>>>>>> Joshua Tree Earth & Space Museum
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Mike Groetz" <mpg4444 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 8:17 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Ancient Fossils in
>>>>>> FireballFragments
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.technologyreview.com/view/512381/astrobiologists-find
>>>>>>> -ancient-fossils-in-fireball-fragments/
>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>
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>>>>>______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
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>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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Received on Wed 13 Mar 2013 12:03:02 PM PDT