[meteorite-list] World Record Slice Produced By Marlin Cilz!

From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 03:36:14 -0700
Message-ID: <CABEOBjL4jrGZQbH2hsgVMa3h7DsTjCWU4apuEuR5ODr2L2Ldtw_at_mail.gmail.com>

Woah, rude and condescending. I don't think I've ever told anyone
that a public list post 'wasn't their business.'

Anyway, I'd like to point out the following:

1) Since you're claiming a record based on the difference between the
two (a slice versus a slab), a formal definition must be made. E.g. a
slice becomes a slab when the thickness becomes __% of the specimen's
cross-sectional area. Or something like that. If you don't even know
what criteria define a "slice," you can't reasonably claim that
someone made the largest one.

Which is clear when you consider the obvious: Marlin may hold a
'larger record,' having cut a larger/thicker slice in the past. Or a
NASA technician might hold the record, from a slice/slab cut in the
70's, or later. Which brings me to my next point.

2) Since we're talking about the largest slice ever *cut,* later
subdivision shouldn't matter. Cutting a slice is a technical
operation, the difficulty of which is not altered by later subdivision
of the specimen. If we're talking about the largest slice *in
existence,* that's a different record.

3) The definition of the record also relies upon the definition of
"largest." You've made it clear that NWA 5000 is less dense than the
Apollo sample in question, so your self-serving definition of
"largest" relies upon the surface area of a slice, not its weight.
Meteorites' value is most often determined by their weight, so this
seems a little odd to me.

I'm glad you were able to find and state (later) that the slice cut
from NWA 5000 is currently, definitively thicker than the one cut from
Apollo sample 61016. New information is always nice.

That said, the dimensions you quote are the current ones, so one would
need to look into the largest slice/slab ever *cut* at NASA, if that's
what the record is for. Either way, Marlin would hold the record for
cutting the 3kg slice (not the 1.1 kg slice) if he does hold the
record. You might as well be fair about it.

4) Shawn makes a fair point that is somewhat tangential; cutting a
large pallasite, iron, or chondrite is probably more difficult,
rendering this an odd record to make note of. While lunar slabs of a
kilo or two may not be common, meteorite slices of this size are
abundant. I wouldn't necessarily call one of them a token, but a
Campo slab of that size or weight would probably cost hundreds of
dollars, and would be a more difficult cutting and preparation job.
And then there are the Fukang, Seymchan, Mundrabilla, and Cape York
slices, often in excess of a meter in at least one dimension. Much
more difficult to do.

Seems like a publicity stunt to me, which I have no problem with, but
you should probably iron out the details first.

Jason

www.fallsandfinds.com


On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 12:39 AM, Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:
> We are talking about a Moon rock here and yes, there are official world records involved.
>
>
> 1,116.78 grams, a token? What planet are you from?
>
>
> Dislodged pieces of the Moon are the most coveted of all according to the Smithsonian. Most Americans consider the NASA Apollo collection of Moon rocks more valuable than the gold in Fort Knox. I think they represent one of mans greatest achievements and are a national treasure but this is just my opinion. Some may think the missions to the Moon were just trivial and the rocks brought back are just tokens.
>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>
> To: Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com>; Meteorite Central <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Cc:
> Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 11:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] World Record Slice Produced By Marlin Cilz!
>
> Interesting.......
>
> I didn't know there was a lunar world record slice contest. I mean 1,116.78 grams - 238mm X 218mm X 14mm of NWA 5000 would
>
> be nice to have. But there are many other meteorite slices or whole slices
>
> that make the 1,116.78 look like token.
>
> Also its seem this record is for whole slice, a slice is a slice :)
>
> I wonder what is the world record slice :) I have seen some beautiful Brenham slices at Bonhams auctions and those suckers were big.
>
> Any whos, if the slice is cute to make it smaller, then wouldn't it make the world record void?
>
> At any rate, I wish I had that in my collection :) great job.
>
>
> Shawn Alan
> IMCA 1633
> ebay store
> http://stores.ebay.com/imca1633ny?_rdc=1
> http://meteoritefalls.com/
> ________________________________
>
>
>
>
> From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
> To: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 10:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] World Record Slice Produced By Marlin Cilz!
>
>
> Hello Adam,
> Your statements confuse me. At what point is a "slice" no longer a
> "slice," but a "slab," and at which point does later subdivision of a
> slice/slab render it not worthwhile to record the original
> slice/slab's weight for purposes of deeming it a record-breaking cut?
>
> It seems like you're using a very specific definition of "complete
> slice" to deem this a record-breaking event. Though, not knowing the
> weight of the largest slice/slab of 61016 (or other lunar samples), I
> find such proclamations...odd.
>
> As to "who cares?" -- apparently you do, since you're making the claims.
>
> I'm all for publicity, but if one's going to make claims regarding
> quantitative numbers, one should be able to back them up -- and
> probably have the weights of the largest previously cut Apollo sample
> slices/slabs on hand to support it. Eyeing a photo and saying "it
> looks like it weighs less" doesn't quite cut it.
>
> I can speak for Marlin's fine work, and have no doubt he did a fine
> job on the slices. But that's beside the point.
>
> Regards,
> Jason
>
>
>
> http://www.fallsandfinds.com/
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 5:35 PM, Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Jason,
>>
>>
>> I looked at the link and what you are calling a complete slice is a slab. If we are going for the world record slab cut, then Marlin still has it.
>>
>> The largest slab cut from NWA 5000 was as follows:
>>
>> 3,538 grams
>> 238mm X 219mm X 52mm
>>
>> Of course, this slab was subdivided into five of the worlds largest Lunar complete slices which was the intent from the beginning. Just like NASA always intended to subdivide the 61016 slab for testing. I would estimate the 61016 slab to be less than half the size and weight of the NWA 5000 slab that Marlin produced.
>>
>> Who cares? Marlin did a wonderful preparation job and is to be commended on a new world record!
>>
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
>> To: Greg Hup? <gmhupe at centurylink.net>
>> Cc: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com>; Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>; Meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 3:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] World Record Slice Produced By Marlin Cilz!
>>
>> Hello All,
>> I hate to rain on the parade, but I'd do some research before making
>> 'record-breaking' claims.
>>
>> http://curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/lsc/61016.pdf
>>
>> I don't know how much the largest slabs of Apollo material weigh(ed),
>> but they were/are sizable. And I don't even know if the huge slabs in
>> the above document were/are the largest they cut.
>>
>> This isn't my project, so I don't feel particularly inclined to ask
>> NASA how large their largest slices of lunar material weigh(ed).
>>
>> Either way the old record probably goes to NASA. Marlin could hold a
>> new record having cut a 1.1 kg slice, but that's questionable given
>> the photos in the above article, if nothing else.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jason
>>
>>
>> http://www.fallsandfinds.com/
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 2:32 PM, Greg Hup? <gmhupe at centurylink.net> wrote:
>>> Hi Mike,
>>>
>>> I am glad you asked for images of the Northwest Africa 5000 complete slices,
>>> here are a few to get you started and I can share more as time allows...
>>> http://www.naturesvault.net/meteorites/nwa5000.html
>>>
>>> The sequence of slices liberated from the original 11.528 kilo mass start
>>> with CS1 (the 'Ambassador' slice), then CS2, CS3, and so forth to CS6. The
>>> slice on today's Meteorite Picture of the Day is CS3. Side 'b' of each slice
>>> goes deeper into the mass and the surface area of the slices become even
>>> larger than the previous slice.
>>>
>>> The 483.89 gram 'Mona Lisa of Moon Rocks' slice will start its world tour at
>>> the 2013 Ensisheim Show this Friday and continue on to the Sainte Marie aux
>>> Mines show if it is still available. I will also be bringing a selection of
>>> smaller slices that are gorgeous!
>>>
>>> If you are going to the Ensisheim Show, or are still contemplating it, this
>>> complete slice of NWA 5000 looks incredibly better in person as attempts to
>>> capture its beauty by mere photos are very difficult.
>>>
>>> I hope to see you all there!
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> ====================
>>> Greg Hup?
>>> The Hup? Collection
>>> gmhupe at centurylink.net
>>> http://www.naturesvault.net/ (Online Catalog & Reference Site)
>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ (Online Planetary Meteorite Site)
>>> NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest & eBay)
>>> http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault
>>> http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault
>>> IMCA 3163
>>> ====================
>>> Click here for my current eBay auctions:
>>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks
>>> Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 5:06 PM
>>> To: Adam Hupe
>>> Cc: Adam
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] World Record Slice Produced By Marlin Cilz!
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Adam,
>>>
>>> I think I speak for many on the List when I say this :
>>>
>>> PHOTOS! And LOTS of them. Every angle. High-res. Close-ups of
>>> interesting clasts. Inquiring minds wanna see eye candy. :)
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> MikeG
>>>
>>> --
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com/
>>> Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>>> Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
>>> Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone
>>> Blog - http://www.galactic-stone.com/blog
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/17/13, Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A big congratulations should go out to Marlin Cilz who prepared five new
>>>> NWA
>>>> 5000 complete slices. He broke a world record which I previously held for
>>>> 5-1/2 years for preparing the single complete slice known as the
>>>> "Ambassador." I never disclosed the record while I held it but it is for
>>>> producing the world's largest Moon rock slice. It is doubtful that
>>>> anybody
>>>> will break Marlin's new record anytime soon,
>>>>
>>>> The record.is:
>>>>
>>>> NWA 5000 Complete Slice:
>>>> 1,116.78 grams - 238mm X 218mm X 14mm
>>>>
>>>> My brother, Greg and I would have never had Marlin produce a slice this
>>>> big
>>>> hadn't it been for a custom order.
>>>>
>>>> Marlin did a world class job of preparing these slices and I wanted to
>>>> thank
>>>> him publicly.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Adam Hupe
>>>> The Hupe Planetary Collection
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: "valparint at aol.com" <valparint at aol.com>
>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 12:00 AM
>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: NWA 5000
>>>>
>>>> Contributed by: Greg and Adam Hupe
>>>>
>>>> http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpod.asp
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>
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>>
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Received on Tue 18 Jun 2013 06:36:14 AM PDT