[meteorite-list] My apology to Mike Farmer

From: plagioklas at arcor.de <plagioklas_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 01:01:38 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <1875828463.1524799.1370818898123.JavaMail.ngmail_at_webmail20.arcor-online.net>

If you think its ok to handle such cases in this way, its your decision.

I think its a bit strange to want that martin sits on knees and begs for forgiving sins, while youself cannot see and dont want to talk about own problems of similar kind. We in Germany say "Who wanna give out, must also be able to take in.". And we do also say, "Do nothing to others what you dont want, that others do to you.".

And i questioned your fulgurites long time before the fake meteorites even arrived in their fraudulent ebay auction. And you sayd even during this discussion, that im not qualified. Nice way to handle critics.


----- Original Nachricht ----
Von: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
An: Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Datum: 10.06.2013 00:53
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] My apology to Mike Farmer

>
>
> Congratulations Alexander Ringel from Germany. You have proven nothing other
> than you are loyal to Martin.?
>
> Now lets get back to real subject; Meteorites and Dealers selling bogus
> material with fake ID cards, shall we?? Guilty parties always try to shift
> blame on others or change the subject.
>
> Perhaps Martin can explain to rest of us how, with is vast knowledge that he
> willingly shares, that he was fooled by such obviously fake material?? Lets
> call it for what it is.
>
> I see this as defaming a meteorite Icon by using his good name on these
> cards done on an inkjet printer.
>
> WHAT AN INSULT TO THE AMERICAN METEORITE LABORATORY!
>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "plagioklas at arcor.de" <plagioklas at arcor.de>
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Cc:
> Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 3:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My apology to Mike Farmer
>
> Oh, im not qualified to comment? I didnt know, that i need a qualification.
> What papers do i need. Profeessor? Doctor?
>
> Am i qualified to participate even on this list? Is anyone qualified? Which
> qualifications does anybody need top be able to comment here about
> meteorites?
>
> This is also your way to handle critics. Im wrong because im not qualified.
> This ensures, that you are right. And so you dont need to test anything and
> you can continue to sell your stuff. Nice solution.
>
> Wanna see more fulgurites?
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=calcareoustufa&biw=1024&bih=637&sei=lfS0UYX8
> AYSLhQfNt4CQAg&tbm=isch
>
> Maybe your geologist is welcome here:
>
> http://tumaren.wildlifedirect.org/2009/04/26/geologist-wanted/
>
> Nevada is so beautiful:
>
> http://chestofbooks.com/science/geology/Intro/The-Chemical-Deposits.html#.Ub
> UD_KDIFxA
> (And yes, where one occurrence is, are often others too, and yes some of em
> are maybe dry since long long time, its the way how many rocks are created)
>
> And if my name is so important to be heared, im Alexander Ringel from
> Germany.
>
>
> ----- Original Nachricht ----
> Von:? ? Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
> An:? ? ? Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Datum:? 10.06.2013 00:25
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] My apology to Mike Farmer
>
> > In other words, you are not qualified to comment on American Fulgurites.
> >
> > You are one of Martins cohorts in Germany and therefore will not use your
> > name. Defend Martin all you want!? He was caught with his hands in the
> > cookie jar once again and that is the
> > only reason he apologized to Mike Farmer who caught him in the act. I
> will
> > not engage you anymore in the great fulgurite debate since you are not
> > qualified and will not use your real name on the Meteorite List.?
> >
> >
> > I will trust the opinion of the geologist who supplied me with them and
> the
> > secondary opinion of a researcher who has live out here all of his life.?
> > Beside, this is a meteorite List the last I checked.
> >
> >
> > Now let get back to the counterfeit meteorites that were put on the
> market,
> > shall we?? This is not the first time Martin has done something
> fraudulent.?
> > Just ask Naveen Jain or the IMCA board that handled the case and anybody
> > else who was caught up in the last scandal?
> >
> > Adam
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "plagioklas at arcor.de" <plagioklas at arcor.de>
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Cc:
> > Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 10:59 AM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My apology to Mike Farmer
> >
> > I have enough qualifications to be able to talk about rocks. Otherwise i
> > wouldnt talk about these here.
> >
> > Im a experienced mineral collector since 25 years. I saw tenthousands of
> > samples live in shops, museums and in the field and i saw much more in
> > images. I dont need to tell, how often i watched my own collection. I do
> > this just because i love watching and searching minerals. I read during
> an
> > average day at least 5 A4 pages about minerals and rocks to learn more.
> Of
> > course i have many books, among these is one of the biggest and most
> > detailled textbooks about minerals, which was available in germany
> (R?slers
> > Lehrbuch der speziellen Mineralogie), which i bought while i had an age
> of
> > less than 10 years, just because the commom books became too boring. I
> have
> > read every of my books during my live more then 10 times, some even so
> > often, that they begun to disintegrate.
> >
> > So i think im maybe even a bit more qualified to identify minerals, than
> the
> > average people, who study some years and put after this studium the
> > textbooks in the corner and do just their jobs.
> >
> > And i say again, they dont look like fulgurites. Even weathered ones
> should
> > show glass and especially bubbles.
> >
> > You say a Nasa geologist? They are not gods, they are also just humans.
> And
> > most geologists are specialised to certain kinds of knowledge to do their
> > jobs. You would wonder alot, if you would show common already identified
> > mineral samples to a group of common geologists to let em identify these.
> > Especially, when they not look like these in the textbooks. Has your
> > geologist put some hydrocloric acid on your fulgurites? Or have you?
> >
> > Occurrences of fulgurites does not mean, that every thing with a hole is
> a
> > fulgurite and does also not exclude the occurrence of wrong fulgurites.
> Its
> > the same thing as with meteorites. Not every black stone in a desert is a
> > meteorite and the occurrence of meteorites does not exclude the
> occurrence
> > of wrongs.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Nachricht ----
> > Von:? ?? Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
> > An:? ? ? Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Datum:?? 09.06.2013 19:10
> > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] My apology to Mike Farmer
> >
> > > I do not know who you are or your qualifications for that matter.?
> These
> > > were found in dry washes in Nevada so naturally, they will not look
> like
> > > more common fugurites found in the Sahara which hit sand.? They have
> > pebbles
> > > and course sand fused into them and have weathered in a dry wash which
> is
> > > more conductive than the hillsides around? here here in Nevada.
> > >
> > > ?Please do your research before questioning others genuine products.? A
> > > geologist and ex NASA researcher has already looked these.? As a matter
> > of
> > > fact, they are found in dry washes all over Arizona and Nevada. Some
> are
> > > standing straight up and have to be dug out of the ground.? Just go to
> > > Quartzite Arizona and look at what is being offered at the show.
> > >
> > > I will not qualify my product again unless you provide your name and
> > > qualifications.
> > >
> > > This is not about me, it is about dealers offering fake meteorites.?
> This
> > > should concern you more than Genuine fulgurites found here in Nevada.
> > >
> > >
> > > Adam
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > From: "plagioklas at arcor.de" <plagioklas at arcor.de>
> > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > Cc:
> > > Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 9:57 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My apology to Mike Farmer
> > >
> > > So you can tell me, why they deviate completely from any image of any
> > > fulgurite i saw and why their color is the exact color of hydrated iron
> > > oxide (limonite) and not the color of dehydrated iron oxide (red) or of
> > with
> > > iron oxide colored glass (bottlegreen, intense "bottle"brown, black).
> And
> > of
> > > course you can also tell, where the bubbles are and why these fulguite
> > shows
> > > inner structures, which looks so similar to typical sinter.
> > >
> > > In fact these fulgurites deviate in almost every detail from absolutely
> > all
> > > fulgurites i know and saw (including google picture search). And i saw
> > alot
> > > of em. Only one thing resembles to common fulgurites,... the hole. But
> > > sinter contains also holes.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Nachricht ----
> > > Von:? ?? Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
> > > An:? ? ? Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > > Datum:?? 09.06.2013 18:24
> > > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] My apology to Mike Farmer
> > >
> > > > These are absolutely genuine.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Adam
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "plagioklas at arcor.de" <plagioklas at arcor.de>
> > > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > > Cc:
> > > > Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 8:46 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My apology to Mike Farmer
> > > >
> > > > Ensisheim is just around the corner and you got the same results as
> > > during
> > > > last years ensisheim month. So dont tell its the fault of one member
> in
> > a
> > > > list.
> > > >
> > > > By the way, while we talk about honesty and reputations, we should
> > maybe
> > > > talk about these:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/FULGURITE-NEVADA-Lightning-Strike-Frozen-Glass-4-70g
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -SLICE-NOT-METEORITE-/14092678222
> > > >
> > > > Have they ever seen any hypocloric acid, after i told you, that these
> > > > absolutely unique fulgurites are most probably sinter (calcite or
> > > > aragonite)?
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Nachricht ----
> > > > Von:? ?? Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
> > > > An:? ? ? Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > Datum:?? 09.06.2013 16:51
> > > > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] My apology to Mike Farmer
> > > >
> > > > > How many bites at the apple do you want? How many more reputations
> > need
> > > > to
> > > > > be destroyed?? How many times does this have to happen in order to
> > > > > completely destroy collector confidence? I had my worst week ever
> on
> > > eBay
> > > > > after this latest incident. It not only affects collectors, it
> > > undermines
> > > > > those who vet their products properly.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think an exclusive apology to Mike Farmer doesn't go far enough.
> > > > > Distributing fake ID cards along with the bogus material and then
> > > > claiming
> > > > > it came from a Meteorite Icon has gone way too far.? Any meteorite
> > > dealer
> > > > > who has been around for a few years would have recognized this
> > material
> > > > for
> > > > > what is really is; "Garbage put on the market in order to fleece
> > > > collectors
> > > > > out of their hard earned money"
> > > > >
> > > > > Happy Collecting,
> > > > >
> > > > > Adam
> > > > > ?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
> > > > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > > > Cc:
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 5:33 AM
> > > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] My apology to Mike Farmer
> > > > >
> > > > > (A.S.: Hi Art, please let it through, it's important for me, but
> also
> > > for
> > > > > the collectors for not falling for the same scam)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > >
> > > > > After a few days of contemplation (sorry for having been slow, but
> > they
> > > > > were
> > > > > necessary for me to cool down),
> > > > > I want to publically and cordially apology to you all, and
> especially
> > > to
> > > > > Mike Farmer, hoping he will accept it.
> > > > > I was wrong and my reaction was crude, unjust and inadequate.
> > > > > All three specimens in question turned out to be fakes.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike was right
> > > > > and due to his expertise it was avoided that the pseudo-Estherville
> > > came
> > > > in
> > > > > further circulation,
> > > > > neither the forged Bondoc nor the faked Murchison were distributed,
> > > > > so that a direct damage, caused by my fault, to the community was
> > > > averted.
> > > > > Therefore we have to thank Mike.
> > > > >
> > > > > Those fakes must have been built by someone, who has a deeper
> > knowledge
> > > > > about meteorites,
> > > > > as it's relatively uncommon, that classical names of semi-rarely
> > > > meteorites
> > > > > are used and the fakes equipped with a legend and labels. (So far
> we
> > > can
> > > > > recall only another case, the forged Dhofar-Moon, which was more
> easy
> > > to
> > > > > unmask, as the specimens came with a "certification" of the
> > university
> > > > > Muenster, which doesn't issue such, and the find was only one
> stone,
> > so
> > > > > that
> > > > > the finder himself immediately could identify them as fakes, as no
> > > > > fragments
> > > > > of that stone did exist).
> > > > >
> > > > > We tried to investigate the case further, fearing that more of such
> > > fakes
> > > > > will appear to the harm of the collectors.
> > > > > But the seller seems to be now untraceable.
> > > > > His name is:?? Jank? Zolt?n from Hungary. He claimed to have
> > purchased
> > > an
> > > > > older mineral collection a few years ago, where these specimens
> were
> > a
> > > > part
> > > > > of among other meteorites. And the collector's name, he gave, is:
> > > J?zsef
> > > > > Vida from Derecske.
> > > > >
> > > > > So we ask you all, to be extremely cautious (and to inform us) if
> > > persons
> > > > > of
> > > > > these names contact you.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, 33 years I was able to sort out the fakes, wrongs, mislabeled
> > > ones,
> > > > > now I failed.
> > > > > That shouldn't and that mustn't happen and is in that field
> > > unforgivable.
> > > > > (At least, after having learned the lesson, also to behave better,
> I
> > > hope
> > > > > to
> > > > > stay fake-free now till 2046).
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So I end with the necessary: Mea maxima culpa,
> > > > > and stay in silent contrition until I'll be allowed
> > > > > to see the sun again..
> > > > >
> > > > > Martin Altmann
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ______________________________________________
> > > > >
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Received on Sun 09 Jun 2013 07:01:38 PM PDT