[meteorite-list] Nwa 7034

From: Shawn Alan <photophlow_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:37:58 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1359394678.63602.YahooMailNeo_at_web162605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Alan, Agee and Listers

I have been reading what everyone has been saying and find it interesting the lexicon that has been used in the past and today in the meteoritic world. In the 1800's the use of thunder-stone, lightning stones, auralite was a house hold name for stones falling from the?sky. I think it wasnt till the mid 1800's that meteorite was the word that would denote all stones that fell from the heavens, and to this day, meteorite has made it through time, unlike?the other names because I think technology has allowed us to dismiss?how?meteorites were formed.?

I do agree?Alan,?names and terms will be used till we find no use for them.?Just think in 100 years from now when we have the means to mine from Mars and or live on?Mars, will meteorites be the thing of the past from that planet??But I also do feel we need names, categories to?distinguish one type of meteorite from another and feel that will help categorize them as such allow?allow scientist and?collectors a like to differentiate meteorites and where they come from.

Lastly, the naming of NWA 7034...... What about Nilelite??The Nile river and NWA 7034 ( highest amount of water). Also we could just keep it at NWA 7034 Martian (basaltic breccia) which would be in accordance with ALH 84001 Martian (OPX) An orthopyroxene-rich martian meteorite.


?Shawn Alan
IMCA 1633
ebay store
http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633nyc/m.html
http://meteoritefalls.com/



________________________________
From: Alan Rubin <aerubin at ucla.edu>
To: Carl Agee <agee at unm.edu>; meteoritelist meteoritelist <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034

The bottom line in all of this is that meteorite group names will last only as long as they're useful.? The literature of the past is littered with group names such as grahamites and others I've forgotten because they fell out of use.? Similarly, the term SNC is not used much these days although the individual group names survive.? If scientisits no longer find it useful to use the term shergottite, then it will gradually fall out of use.? If folks invent new names and no one uses them, then it doesn't really matter. An interesting analogy is that there are some unpopular models for chondrule formation, for example, (say gamma-ray bursts) that no one uses and thus don't pollute the literature.
Alan

Alan Rubin
Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics
University of California
3845 Slichter Hall
603 Charles Young Dr. E
Los Angeles, CA? 90095-1567
phone: 310-825-3202
e-mail: aerubin at ucla.edu
website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html


----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Agee"
<agee at unm.edu>
To: "meteoritelist meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034


Hi Jeff,

Of course the comparison between chondrite groups and martian types is
not perfect. The different martian types are not from different parent
bodies, but we still don't know where they come from on Mars, and
won't for a long time, not until we know the geology of Mars better.
So for a large body like a planet, and given our fragmentary knowledge
of Mars, different regions are more or less equivalent to different
parent bodies. Describing martians with generic lithologic names that
were developed for Earth geology is useful, but for example we
don't
hesitate to use the term mid-ocean ridge basalts (MORB) for Earth's
most abundant rock type, which will never be found on Mars. The same
is true for Mars because of a different planetary evolution. We are
already doing this based on rover data, the term "Gusev basalt" is one
example. SNC's plus ALH 84001 and NWA 7034 are, each type, glimpses of
diversity of Mars' unique geology.

Carl Agee

-- Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126

Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: agee at unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jeff Grossman <jngrossman at gmail.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Cc:
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 00:06:22 -0500
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
There are two reasons why we can't get rid of carbonaceous chondrite
group names.? First, unlike Martian meteorites, we don't know where C
chondrites came from.? We can't point to a single asteroid as the
source for any of them, let alone all of them.? So the group names are
still serving their basic purpose of ordering the chaos.? Second, the
only language we have to describe the rocks known as chondrites is by
their group names.? They can't be described with standard rock
nomenclature. So this is not a fair comparison.

I didn't say Martian meteorite
names were not useful.? I said they
were archaic, historical artifacts.

Jeff

On 1/26/2013 11:38 PM, Carl Agee wrote:

???Hi Jeff and all you Nomenclature Enthusiasts out there:

???I think the martian meteorite names do serve a useful purpose, they
???are a sort of short-hand, so that you don?t have to be an igneous
???petrologist to know that one type of martian is different from
???another.? So when we say a martian meteorite is a ?NWA7034-ite?, or
????blackbeauty-ite?,? or a ?saharite? or whatever name you want to pick,
???we are implicitly talking about a breccia, that is water-rich, alkali
???basalt, with higher-than-SNC oxygen isotope values, ~ 2 byo, etc.? For
???example, like it or not, when we say ?Allan Hills? the first thing
???comes that comes to mind is ALH 84001.? When you say orthopyroxenite
???maybe not so much. If it?s such a great idea to do away with martian
???types, why don?t we go ahead and do away with all the carbonaceous
? chondrite groups? like CI, CM, CV, etc. and just call them all
?? carbonaceous chondrites, that of course have a wide range of
???compositions, textures, mineralogies etc.? Meteoritics isn?t the only
???science that has colorful nomenclature. Mineralogists still like to
???name new minerals after famous mineralogists, instead of just naming
???them by their chemical composition or crystal structure.

???Carl Agee
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Received on Mon 28 Jan 2013 12:37:58 PM PST