[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day

From: Jeff Grossman <jngrossman_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2013 09:25:37 -0500
Message-ID: <50E837E1.3000603_at_gmail.com>

I should add: my first two categories are types of falls, whereas the
last three are types of finds.

Jeff

On 1/5/2013 8:12 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:
> In all seriousness, I have considered refining, or at least qualifying
> the definition of "fall." The categories I've considered are these,
> and the definitions are first passes:
>
> Observed fall: observed to fall, either visually or with instruments,
> and collected soon after the event. The event was well documented.
> Physical evidence associated with the collected meteorites is
> consistent with a fresh fall, or, when collection does not occur
> immediately, directly points to a fall at the time of the observed event.
>
> Unobserved fall: No observations were made of a fall event, but
> physical evidence conclusively points to a fall on a specific date or
> within a very narrow range of dates.
>
> Probable fall: In these cases, there was a well-documented meteor
> event with characteristics consistent with a meteorite fall, followed
> by the collection of meteorites some time later. There is a strong
> likelihood that the meteorite fell in the observed event, but physical
> evidence is not fully conclusive.
>
> Possible fall: The same situation as a probable fall, but there is
> significant doubt about whether the meteorite is connected to the
> event or about the reliability of the observations of the event.
>
> Doubtful fall: The same situation as a possible fall, but there is a
> high degree of doubt.
>
> This was all suggested by the circumstances surrounding the Bene?ov
> (a) and (b) meteorites, which I would have put in the "possible fall"
> category, if such a thing existed.
>
> Jeff
>
> On 1/4/2013 8:57 PM, Michael Farmer wrote:
>> I find this new attempt to change terminology disturbing. I have
>> hundreds of old catalogs from the top museums and dealers from more
>> than 200 years ago till today, all of them list falls and finds. None
>> of them discuss unobserved falls as an acceptable alternative.
>> Are we really ready to just accept anything thrown out there, and
>> watch as all manner of BS is used to discredit hundreds of years of
>> accepted terminology?
>> My private collection focuses on witnessed falls, with date and time
>> and science to back it up.
>> I am not interested in another group which would include every
>> meteorite ever to have fallen, since they did actually all fall at
>> some point.
>> Well, I guess Anne can delete her birthday fall calendar page since
>> now we can simply put every NWA on any date you choose to believe it
>> might have possibly fallen:).
>>
>>
>> Michael Farmer
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 6:47 PM, "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> If a meteorite falls from the sky and no one is there to hear it,
>>> does it
>>> make a sound?
>>>
>>> ;^]
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------
>>> Mike Bandli
>>> Historic Meteorites
>>> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
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>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
>>> hall at meteorhall.com
>>> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 5:36 PM
>>> To: Anne Black
>>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; valparint at aol.com
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
>>>
>>> Right, Anne. That is why they are referred to as a "Fall" or a "Find".
>>> Concise!
>>> Cheers, Fred Hall
>>>
>>>> Every single meteorite ever found on Earth is necessarily the result
>>>> of a fall, they are not native to Earth. The only difference is that
>>>> some falls are seen, witnessed, and some, the vast majoriry, are not.
>>>>
>>>> So calling them Observed or Unobserved falls is logical. That is what
>>>> happened to all of them.
>>>> That is simple reality.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anne M. Black
>>>> www.IMPACTIKA.com
>>>> IMPACTIKA at aol.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> tFrom: hall <hall at meteorhall.com>
>>>> To: Michael Farmer <mike at meteoriteguy.com>
>>>> Cc: meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; valparint
>>>> <valparint at aol.com>
>>>> Sent: Fri, Jan 4, 2013 6:13 pm
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> An "unobserved fall" is two words to describe the one word that has
>>>> been used for a century, "Find". The one word "Find" is good enough
>>>> for the Catalogue of Meteorites, it was good enough for Harvey
>>>> Nininger, and it is what I shall always use. Keep it concise.
>>>> Regards, Fred Hall
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That would make sense for say New Orleans, where a stone went through
>>>> a
>>>>> house and no one in their right mind would suggest that it did not
>>>> fall at
>>>>> that time say between 8 am and 4 pm when there was no hole in the
>>>> house,
>>>>> yet it was not seen to fall.
>>>>> An old rock found in a field does not suggest anything about fall
>>>> date. So
>>>>> it is a find, something never really argued against until now?
>>>>> It has crust which can suggest it is not thousands of years old, most
>>>> of
>>>>> our Springwater meteorites have black and blue crust but nevertheless
>>>> it
>>>>> is a find.
>>>>> Michael Farmer
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 10:28 AM, <valparint at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> An "unobserved fall" is, well, a fall that was not observed, in
>>>>>> contradistinction to a fall that was observed. The terminology of
>>>>>> the Meteoritical Bulletin Database is "Observed fall: no".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The information being conveyed is NOT that the meteorite fell but
>>>> that
>>>>>> the fall was not observed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In general, the questions about falling and finding are:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) was the fall observed?
>>>>>> 2) if so, when was it observed?
>>>>>> 3) if not, is there any guesstimate of when it fell?
>>>>>> 4) regardless of weather it was observed or not, when was it
>>>>>> actually found?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul Swartz
>>>>>> MPOD webmaster
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is an "unobserved fall"? Every meteorite fell at some point. I
>>>>>>> have thousands of unobserved falls in my collection.
>>>>>>> Michael Farmer
>>>>> ______________________________________________
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Received on Sat 05 Jan 2013 09:25:37 AM PST