[meteorite-list] Franconia AREA (was, Re: ...terminology...)

From: Jim Wooddell <jimwooddell_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 15:23:56 -0700
Message-ID: <CAH_zgwFibMDPCuWTNxPg_Ep+3OjzyGc8-FXACRxWgW1nMKVR4w_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hi Larry!



I really think that would be a great idea. If you have SAW005 from
the area for example....bought or found....you might learn that you
don't have SAW005 at all. ;)

Jim



On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 3:04 PM, Larry Atkins <thetoprok at aol.com> wrote:
> Bob, List,
>
> Ok, Franconia is very convoluted. (What a great place!)
>
> Time to have a few of my (L) finds from there classified. It's so confusing,
> now I have no idea what any of my meteorites from the area are! I'd like to
> see a visual aid, side by side, the various stones sliced and labeled with
> classifications.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Larry Atkins
>
> IMCA # 1941
> Ebay alienrockfarm
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Verish <bolidechaser at yahoo.com>
> To: Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Mon, Apr 29, 2013 1:57 am
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Franconia AREA (was, Re: ...terminology...)
>
>
> In my original post I neglected to add a link to the Hutson paper.
> Here is the link to the "News" page from the Met. Bull. Database:
>
> http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/MetBullNews.php?id=1
>
> On that MetBull webpage is a link to the Melinda Hutson paper:
>
> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/maps.12062/abstract
>
> It was my hope that my post would draw some interest and get more people to
> read
> this recent M&PS article. (2013 March, Vol.48 No.3 pg.365)
>
> The thrust of my (partial) review was that many long-held assumptions about
> the
> Franconia area have been overturned by this paper. Actually, a better
> phrase
> would be, "many sacred-cows have been slaughtered".
> My post was a plea that if you were going to put in print some observation
> about
> the Franconia Area, you had better read this paper first.
>
> I am in agreement with what is at the heart of Erik's post, so I don't want
> his
> point missed because of a technicality with his reference to the Gold Basin
> Fall. I consider myself as a student of that strewn-field and, although
> there
> are many different meteorites found in the Gold Basin AREA, nowhere in the
> literature has anything other than L4-6 Fa:24?1 been attributed to the Gold
> Basin fall.
>
> Prior to reading this recent paper, I was in complete agreement with Larry
> about
> the relative terrestrial age of the L-chondrites, particularly the
> "fresh-appearing" BM002 & BM003 stones. But that was just another cow-shaped
> assumption. Terrestrial age-dating for 10 stones from the Franconia Area
> were
> presented in this paper, and aside from the lone H6 stone (BM001) all of the
> L-chondrites dated older than the H-falls.
> Here is the relative order of falls:
>
> 1. BM 001 ~20kyr ago
> 2. BM 003 ~11kyr ago
> 3. Palo Verde Mine ~10kyr ago
> 4. BM 004 ~ 8kyr ago
> 5. BM 005 ~ 7kyr ago
> 6. BMW 4.0?0.7kyr ago
> 7. Franconia "fell recently"
>
> Looking forward to hearing from others who have read this article.
>
> Have a good night,
> Bob V.
>
> General List Policies:
> 6. Make sure you can back up statements with -facts and references-
>
>
> --- On Sun, 4/28/13, Mark <minador at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Mark <minador at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Franconia AREA (was, Re:
>
> ...terminology...)
>>
>> To: "Larry Atkins" <thetoprok at aol.com>
>> Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com"
>
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>
>> Date: Sunday, April 28, 2013, 5:15 PM
>>
>> I agree with Eric too,
>> but not for the different dates that Larry refers to
>> (which is mentioned in the same article).
>> After seeing many diverse rock types in a same small rock mass,
>> I've always felt it's too simplistic to say
>> different class. = different fall.
>>
>> I would go with the dating in this specific case that
>> indicates different fall events though.
>>
>> Sent from my iPod Touch
>>
>>
>> On Apr 28, 2013, at 4:44 PM, Larry Atkins <thetoprok at aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Eric,
>> >
>> > Though I'm not in total agreement with you,
>> > that is a good point.
>> > What it comes down to is terrestrial age.
>> > That would settle it.
>> > For instance, the L chondrites at Franconia are
>> > quite obviously from a more recent event,
>> > I'm certain they are not related.,
>> > they are distinctly different in hand
>> > and look fresher, and far rarer..
>> >
>> > Almahitta - Sita, among others, says they are not
>> always homogeneous. You make good points
>> >
>> > Sincerely,
>> > Larry Atkins
>> >
>> > IMCA # 1941
>> > Ebay alienrockfarm
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Erik Fisler <phxerik at yahoo.com>
>> > To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> > Sent: Sun, Apr 28, 2013 7:11 pm
>> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Franconia AREA (was, Re:
>> ...terminology...)
>> >
>> >
>> > You mean all those H3-5's are paired?!? Lord.
>> >
>> > I think people forget that there are LL's, L's and H's
>> > found from the Gold Basin fall.
>> > To say that a mass from a parent body large
>> > enough to have a strewn field
>> > of this size and TKW should be one homogeneous
>> > petro.-type is silly.
>> > This business of trying to classify every stone as a
>> > different fall for what
>> > ever selfish or perverse reason along with having a
>> > personal attachment to the
>> > outcome of the over all conclusion is ridiculous and
>> > completely against the
>> > scientific method.
>> >
>> > How many of those Y[ucca]DCA or what ever H3-5's have been
>> > found outside the mapped strewn field? And how far?
>> >
>> > -Erik Fisler
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> > On Apr 26, 2013, at 11:02 PM, Robert Verish <bolidechaser at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi All,
>> >> Just read another article in the 2013 March edition
>> of M&PS,
>> >> "Stones from Mohave County, Arizona:
>> >> Multiple falls in the 'Franconia strewn field' "
>> >> by Melinda Hutson, et al.
>> >>
>> >> There is much to digest from this 5-author paper
>> >> that is 25 pages long.
>> >> What with 14 stones being studied and 7 pairings to
>> >> be described, there is a lot to chew on.
>> >>
>> >> Here's something to chew on. According to this paper,
>> >> "Much unclassified
>> >> material that has been distributed [sold] as
>> >> 'Franconia' may not be from the Franconia fall".
>> >> The authors make a case that
>> >> more than half of the finds made in the "Franconia area"
>> >> are paired to the Buck Mountain Wash fall.
>> >>
>> >> It has taken 10 years, but these findings show that
>> >> I was justified in my belly-aching about all of the
>> >> self-pairing that was occurring back then.
>> >> It was on this very List that I was strongly criticized
>> >> for this, and many dealers that thought they knew better
>> >> defended their God-given right to name their stones
>> >> after the Franconia meteorite that I got classified.
>> >>
>> >> A closer look at the MetBull images for Franconia shows
>> >> that very few of them are from the Franconia fall.
>> >> I offer no apologies for taking great satisfaction
>> >> in the fact that I am now vindicated.
>> >>
>> >> The paper goes on to show that every Sacramento Wash
>> >> numbered meteorite is paired to Buck Mountain Wash,
>> >> which effectively has resulted in the demise of
>> >> the SaW DCA and hastened the formation of the Yucca DCA.
>> >>
>> >> As I said, if you read this paper, there's a lot
>> >> more to digest.
>> >> It's late and I'm thinking about chewing on an antacid pill.
>> >>
>> >> -- Bob V.
>> >>
>> >> --- On Thu, 4/25/13, Jim Wooddell <jimwooddell at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> From: Jim Wooddell <jimwooddell at gmail.com>
>> >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Chelyabinsk - IMB
>> or SMB? The
>> > nomenclature of
>> > Melts.
>> >>> To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> >>> Date: Thursday, April 25, 2013, 5:29 PM
>> >>> Hi All!
>> >>> Just a point of information. I just read
>> Dr. Rubin's paper,
>> >>> "Multiple melting in a four-layered
>> barred-olivine chondrule with
>> >>> compositionally heterogeneous glass from LL3.0
>> Semarkona"
>> >>> Whew! That's a title for a paper!
>> >>> While we are on the subject of melts, I thought
>> I'd point-out
>> >>> this paper.
>> >>> Enjoyed reading it the first time....actually
>> understood some
>> >>> of it and will read it once again after
>> thinking about it
>> >>> for a while.
>> >>> You folks might enjoy reading it when you get a
>> chance!
>> >>> Thanks Alan!!
>> >>>
>> >>> Jim Wooddell
>> >> ++++++++++++++
>> >>
>> >> ______________________________________________
>> >>
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>
>
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-- 
Jim Wooddell
jimwooddell at gmail.com
928-247-2675

Received on Mon 29 Apr 2013 06:23:56 PM PDT