[meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!

From: Stalder Thomas <saharagems_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2013 06:41:53 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1366378913.87825.YahooMailNeo_at_web162301.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hi folks,

Just my input about "stones" from Turkey. Recently the highest police officer from the canton of Valais in Switzerland was arrested in Turkey (carrying a stone most probably a piece of an ancient temple) when return from family holidays. I would not try to carry anything out of Turkeylooking like "ancient" not even a stone found on a beach somewhere. I'm glad that I'm not working for our Consulate in Turkey otherwise cases like this one means a lot of "overtime" work and maybe prison visits included. So I prefer to be here in the "wild east balcan" country of Kosovo where to carry "tons" of minerals out the country is not a problem at all (at least until now) :-)


Here a link (sorry only in German).

http://www.blick.ch/news/ausland/verliert-varone-jetzt-seinen-job-id2242898.html

Cheers
Tom


________________________________
 From: Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!
 

Hi Count,

yep you're right, I'm no diplomat.
(And - viziers and consuls - here in Germany with its baleful history, we have a different paradigm about states servants than in the hegemonic proud Ex-Ottoman Empire,? German consuls aren't only servants of the state, but also servants of the people).

Anyway, the arrests of tourists having picked up a stone from the beach are always also a part of a political game.

Partially because of the permanent refusal of the EU to start negotiations with Turkey for its admittance to the EU,
and partially because of Turkey's aggressive policy to claim back antiquities and cultural heritage from other governments.

From the Rep. of Germany for instance, they want to have back that stuff:
http://www.geo.de/reisen/community/bild/regular/220723/Pergamon-Altar.jpg


(Btw. one important reason for not declaring meteorites to be "cultural" heritage.
That would bring the big historic institutional collections in hard troubles).

Best!
Martin

-----Urspr?nglicheNachricht-----
Von: Count Deiro [mailto:countdeiro at earthlink.net]
Gesendet: Freitag, 19. April 2013 04:55
An: Martin Altmann; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!

Hallo Martin,

I said meteorite to him and the answer was "no". I don't want to call attention to myself by asking for a further clarification. My feeling is that he would take offense at my having the impudence (Frechheit) to quote his own laws to him.

Allesbestes

Guido



-----Original Message-----
>From: Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
>Sent: Apr 18, 2013 12:14 PM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!
>
>Hi Count,
>
>maybe you could ask the consul again, to give you the respective law?
>
>Decisive is the Law No. 2863 of July 21, 1983 on Conservation of
>Cultural and Natural Property (as last amended by Law No. 5835 of
>February 4, 2009 and Law No. 5917 of June 25, 2009)
>
>Here it is in English version:
>http://www.wipo.int/wipolex/en/text.jsp?file_id=249359
>
>It definitely has no meteorites in the catalogue-articles, where all kind of object-categories are explicitly named.
>
>Neither cover the definitions of "cultural property" nor "natural
>property", given in Chapter 1, Art. 3a) 1)&2) Meteorites in general, but would need an interpretation by a court.
>E.g. a find of H5 could perhaps not be regarded "unique" (nor being of beauty, if it's W3, hehe).
>
>And even if covered, if purchased from a dealer with the right license, they could be exported like antiquities in such cases too.
>
>On the other side, rocks are per se not "o.k." see the definition of "natural property".
>
>
>Best,
>Martin
>
>
>-----Urspr?nglicheNachricht-----
>Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] ImAuftragvon
>Count Deiro
>Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 20:31
>An: Anne Black; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!
>
>Dear Anne,
>
>In reading the story, the two suspected artifacts are described in the body of the article.
>
>I have contacted the Turkish Cultural and Economic Affairs office in LosAngeles, California and His Excellency, Ayd?n Topcu, Consul General for Turkey, informs me that the collection of meteorites for removal from Turkey is forbidden under law and that there is no permit process.
>
>So "rocks" ok...other things not.
>
>Cordially,
>
>Count Deiro
>IMCA 3536? ?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Anne Black <impactika at aol.com>
>>Sent: Apr 18, 2013 11:09 AM
>>To: countdeiro at earthlink.net, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!
>>
>>Sorry, but this does not add up.
>>I have been to Turkey twice, beautiful country, very friendly people.
>>I have bought minerals, some multi-colored marbles, picked up some
>>blue serpentine on the side of the road, and had no problem at all
>>bringing them back.
>>I also visited many archaeological sites, but I certainly would never
>>pick up anything there.
>>
>>I wonder what his "stones" look like!
>>
>>
>>Anne M. Black
>>www.IMPACTIKA.com
>>IMPACTIKA at aol.com
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Count Deiro <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
>>To: meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 10:48 am
>>Subject: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!
>>
>>
>>Hello Listees,
>>
>>Take a look at how Turkey is handling "rock collectors". And this one
>>a tourist!
>>
>>
>>http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/22013551/us-tourist-faces-jail-in-turkey-
>>f or-collecting-beach-stones#axzz2QpOTN1Sq
>>
>>"It will never be he same."
>>
>>Count Deiro
>>IMCA 3536? MetSoc
>>______________________________________________
>>
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>>?
>
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Received on Fri 19 Apr 2013 09:41:53 AM PDT