[meteorite-list] New BLM Rules - Proposition 120

From: Mark Bowling <minador_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 18:39:04 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1348450744.27307.YahooMailNeo_at_web160403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

That's true.? I understand your perspective.? It's?very difficult to deal with other states when you don't vote here.? In fact it costs much more to hunt game as a non-resident.

But my point is?it's not my job to change policy in other states.??I need to worry about getting things done at home.

Non-Arizonans don't have to lobby the state about meteorite rules, Arizonans need to carry the burden for that.? Your help is very welcome, but it is us who face the greater hardship?if our land rules suck.??Much more than someone who wants to come here?a couple times a?year.? I don't have to lobby Nevada, Nevadans will worry about how the state of Nevada makes the rules.? Maybe we can work together and come up with some universal guidelines like how most states adopt other state's zoning guidelines, safety standards, etc.

The fact of the matter is I have had better luck talking face-to-face with the State Land Director and Arizona Game & Fish officials, than I have had with Feds in DC.? I haven't had much luck with state officials in Idaho or Maine, but that doesn't really affect my life much.? I will worry about Arizona and let the others worry about meteorite hunting in Idaho or elsewhere.

Working with the locals, I have better luck getting a state-wide hunting permit, than I do getting a state-wide meteorite permit with the BLM.? Right now you have to get a license with all the different BLM areas.? I just need one hunting and fishing license in Arizona.

I agree, the USGS are very helpful, but it's their job to help with information gathering.? The BLM, FWS, etc. don't want to budge when they think their job is?saving the world.

I have recreated on Arizona State Land, USFS and BLM land all my life.? I have only been hassled on Fed land.? I can only speak for myself and my family.? No doubt others have had bad experiences on state land.? I have never had any problem.

Regardless of what I think, there is very little chance the Feds will give up their land (unless they go bankrupt and need to sell off a few things to make good on the $16T debt.).

Mark

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul H. <oxytropidoceras at cox.net>
To: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Cc:
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 4:10 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules - Proposition 120

I wrote and was quoted as saying:

"Also, you may find state officials no different, or even
worse, than federal officials with which to deal. Be
careful for what you wish."

In ?New BLM Rules - Proposition 120? at,
http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2012-September/087391.html
Mark replied;

?It is easier to deal with locally elected officials who
are at most 2 or 3 hours away from your home. I
have had success having face time with state officials,
but the Feds... hopeless. They are often inaccessible,
unaccountable and won't give you the time of day. ?

What I have found, is this is not true of the people, who
live out of state. I have had the same ?won't give you the
time of day? experience with state officials also. Often
my experience has often been that if a person is not a
resident and cannot vote in a state, as far as some state
officials are concern, a person can just go jump in a very
deep sinkhole. Dealing with state officials might be fine
if a person lives in the same state as the state official.
Otherwise, it can be just as frustrating as dealing with
federal officials. If a person is nonresident, I have found
that state officials are just as inaccessible as some, but
definitely not all, federal officials can be. The only
exception to this are people at state geological surveys,
who I have found to be without exception universally
accessible.

As much as there needs to be changes to BLM policies
towards collecting rocks, minerals, fossils, and meteorites,
they appear still to be far better than those practiced by
Arizona in respect to its general state lands, which are
not officially part of their parks according to what I have
found online. For example,

1. I found one comment about mineral collecting on state
land in Arizona on their ?Mineral Management Program?
web page at
http://www.land.state.az.us/programs/natural/mineral_leasing.htm#commonVariety

It states,

?**Note: Recreational mining or mineral collecting on
State Trust land is prohibited.?

2. The ?Mining Activities on State Trust Land? web page at
http://mines.az.gov/Info/aztrustlands.html , states:

?Recreational mining or mineral collecting on State Trust
land is prohibited.?

3. ?RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES NOT ALLOWED ON STATE
LANDS UNDER ANY PERMIT? at:
http://www.tucsonhunting.com/State_Land.php

?Collecting or removing natural products (rocks, stone,
soil, fossils, mineral specimens, cacti, saguaro or cholla
skeletons, plants (live or dead), or firewood for home
use?

4. The ?Arizona rockhounding? web page at
http://mines.az.gov/Rec_Ed/rockhound.html guides people
to BLM land for rock and mineral collecting.

5. The ?Gold Panning? web at
http://mines.az.gov/Rec_Ed/goldpanning.html states:

?In general, gold panning is allowed on Bureau of Land
Management and Forest Service Land where there are
no existing claims.?

No mention is made of where it is allowed on Arizona
state lands. The impression that I get is that they want
rock collectors to come to visit Arizona and spend money
However, they want them to stay off state land and do
all of their rock hounding on BLM land. I would suspect
that they have the same feeling for meteorite collectors.

6. Also, there is ?Date Creek Crystal location? at:
http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16892

?I have received a warning ( not at this spot) and advised that
my name will be on file and that another violation will be BAD!

Don't blame me if YOU get caught!"

7. Finally, there is ?Hunting on Arizona State Land?? at:
http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=15598

?State land is not open for prospecting. Getting caught there
is an instant trip to jail,and a big fine.?

"Recreational mining or metal detecting on state trust land is
prohibited. State trust land is not public land period. Simply
being on the land without the proper permit is trespassing,and
no permit allows for metal detecting."

Judging from what I have found, the discussion on the above
pages likely also applies to meteorites. It appears from these
web pages that changing from the BLM to the state of Arizona
is not going to help anything for meteorite collectors.

Best wishes,

Paul H.
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Received on Sun 23 Sep 2012 09:39:04 PM PDT