[meteorite-list] Water cutting question

From: Don Merchant <dmerchan_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 19:23:38 -0500
Message-ID: <000d01cdc77e$747b3250$6401a8c0_at_donaldmerchant>

MikeG if that piece had hit you in your head or face, would that re-qualify
it as a Hammer Stone!?
Sincerely
Don Merchant
----- Original Message -----
From: "MikeG" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
To: "Michael Mulgrew" <mikestang at gmail.com>
Cc: "meteoritelist meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question


> Hi Folks,
>
> I wanted to clarify that my personal experience is mostly with stony
> types. While I do appreciate irons and pallasites, I avoid cutting
> them. I've had a couple of near-misses while cutting irons. On one
> particular occasion, I was attempting to cut a window into a small
> Whitecourt iron. I was holding the specimen with my hands while
> cutting, and it got stuck on the blade and hurled upwards. It nicked
> the blade guard on the way up, narrowly missed my head, and ricocheted
> off the garage ceiling. I found it about a week later, laying amongst
> the clutter. It happened so fast that I had no time to react.
>
> It was my fault and inexperience. Thankfully it didn't hit me in the
> face.
>
> But back to distilled water : 90% of what I cut is stony meteorites.
> Occasionally I will cut and polish some meso nuggets, but only if they
> are small. I use distilled water on everything, but I have little
> experience using it on irons. By the time I learned about distilled
> water, I had all but quit cutting irons.
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
> --
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>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/20/12, Michael Mulgrew <mikestang at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ed and list,
>>
>> I do not know of an exact way to calculate, but a few minutes at
>> around 29 inches Hg of vacuum (sea level), especially on a hot plate
>> and with a little aggitation, will remove about all of the dissolved
>> gasses.
>>
>> Michael in so. Cal.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Ed Deckert <edeckert at triad.rr.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Michael,
>>>
>>> Is there a method to calculate how long to leave a specific volume of
>>> water
>>> at a specific vacuum (inches Hg) to ensure that it is degassed?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ed
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Mulgrew"
>>> <mikestang at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Pete Pete" <rsvp321 at hotmail.com>
>>> Cc: "meteoritelist meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 5:08 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question
>>>
>>>
>>>> Pete and list,
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately the method you use does not effectively de-gas water, as
>>>> exposure to the atmosphere will allow atmospheric gasses to continue
>>>> to dissolve into solution; it is the atmospheric gasses that cause
>>>> water to be corrosive. To de-gas water you can:
>>>>
>>>> - Boil it
>>>> - Sonicate under vacuum
>>>> - Use a vacuum degasser
>>>> - Bubble He through it
>>>> - Etc.
>>>>
>>>> But unless you store your degassed water in an air-tight container
>>>> gasses will begin to dissolve back into solution almost immediately.
>>>>
>>>> Michael in so. Cal.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Pete Pete <rsvp321 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I do!
>>>>>
>>>>> I fill all my old distilled four litre jugs with tap water and let
>>>>> them
>>>>> sit with the caps off for about seven days.
>>>>> A chemist buddy of mine said it takes about 24 hours for any chlorine
>>>>> and
>>>>> other gasses to dissipate, but with the narrow neck and relatively
>>>>> small
>>>>> cap
>>>>> opening, to be prudent, after a couple of days I give it each jug a
>>>>> shake
>>>>> and leave it again for a few more.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Pete
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: mikestang at gmail.com
>>>>>> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 11:17:37 -0800
>>>>>> To: raremeteorites at yahoo.com
>>>>>> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adam, Mike, Carl, and list:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The main constituents in "pure" water that cause corrosion are
>>>>>> dissolved gasses. Does anyone de-gas their cutting water?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael in so. Cal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Adam Hupe
>>>>>> <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Who knows what chemicals lurk in tap water? By purifying it, you
>>>>>> > are
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > removing the unknowns. I have
>>>>>> > seen, for lack of a better term, Lawrencite disease creep up, >
>>>>>> > especially with tap water that contains chlorine which seems to >
>>>>>> > accelerate
>>>>>> > the
>>>>>> > problem. I have had no issues cutting with purified water as long
>>>>>> > as
>>>>>> > the contact time has been minimized. I guess purifying it could
>>>>>> > make
>>>>>> > the water more acidic but I also monitor the PH level and have not
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > seen
>>>>>> > much of a difference.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Other alternative coolants such as mineral oil, pure ethyl alcohol
>>>>>> > or
>>>>>> > kerosine do not appeal to me anymore, mainly due to fumes, ignition
>>>>>> > or
>>>>>> > the smell left in the specimens.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Adam
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > ________________________________
>>>>>> > From: Carl Agee <agee at unm.edu>
>>>>>> > To: meteoritelist meteoritelist
>>>>>> > <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:35 AM
>>>>>> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I have been following the thread on cutting irons in water. My
>>>>>> > question is, why distilled or purified water rather than tap water?
>>>>>> > I
>>>>>> > was under the impression that purified water, i.e. ultrapure water,
>>>>>> > is
>>>>>> > much more corrosive than mineralized water like spring water or tap
>>>>>> > water. In fact, ultrapure water is so corrosive it is often used in
>>>>>> > clean labs as a cleaning medium for surfaces. Also, the
>>>>>> > pharmaceutical
>>>>>> > industry no longer uses stainless steel tubing for ultrapure water
>>>>>> > because of corrosion -- they use Teflon or polyethylene instead I
>>>>>> > believe. Wouldn't pure water be worse on iron oxidation than
>>>>>> > "mineral" water? I can understand using pure water to cut down on
>>>>>> > trace element contamination for geochemical srtudies, especially on
>>>>>> > stones, but I don't see how this helps for keeping irons from
>>>>>> > rusting.
>>>>>> > Also, while we are at it, what is the best blade for cutting irons?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Thanks,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Carl Agee
>>>>>> > --
>>>>>> > Carl B. Agee
>>>>>> > Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
>>>>>> > Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
>>>>>> > MSC03 2050
>>>>>> > University of New Mexico
>>>>>> > Albuquerque NM 87131-1126
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Tel: (505) 750-7172
>>>>>> > Fax: (505) 277-3577
>>>>>> > Email: agee at unm.edu
>>>>>> > http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
>>>>>> > ______________________________________________
>>>>>> >
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Received on Tue 20 Nov 2012 07:23:38 PM PST