[meteorite-list] Admire Pallasite Destruction!

From: Gary Fujihara <fujmon_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 06:59:32 -1000
Message-ID: <0E72F865-A803-491E-A4E4-A630A9D81C73_at_mac.com>

Good points Mike and Adam,

But, I would like to add that the individual from which the slice was cut and prepared is a large factor in their stability. I have seen (and owned) stable and self-destructing Brenham, Seymchan, Fukang, etc. What type of soil the individual was recovered from, and what part of the stone the piece was cut from can have an impact on how well the pieces are resistant to oxidation. Pieces cut from different parts of the same stone can also vary greatly in stability.

No amount of preparation or oxidation mitigation from sealing, coating, chemical treatment, etc can completely eliminate oxidation from a ruster. By the way, irons and stony-irons are not the only self destructing meteorites. I have had chondrites bleed and fall apart as well ? Tsarev, Ghubara are two that come to mind.

gary

On Nov 19, 2012, at 6:44 AM, MikeG <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Don and Adam,
>
> I am not nearly as experienced as either of you. Having said that, I
> have seen and owned stable specimens of Brenham and Admire. I will
> not argue against the ruster reputation, because there are numerous
> examples of these pallasites self-destructing.
>
> The problem is, mainly, the preparation. If you cut a meteorite using
> tap water or anything other than distilled water, you are guaranteeing
> that specimen will be unstable. You might as well smash it with a
> sledgehammer and throw it in the garbage can. Why people try to cut
> corners and save money by refusing to purchase distilled water is
> beyond me. Any water that is not distilled will contaminate the
> specimen - every time, without exception, pallasite or not. It's the
> lazy man's way to cut. The only excuse is if the cutter is using a
> giant 16" slab saw (or big wire saw) that requires a constant flow of
> many gallons of coolant - and distilled water would not feasible.
>
> Second part of preparation problem is proper handling during and after
> cutting - have a hot oven waiting at 250F and immediately put the
> freshly-cut specimen into the oven for 12-16 hours to purge remnant
> moisture from cutting. Skipping this step is suicide for a specimen,
> especially for irons and stony-irons.
>
> After cutting and drying, put the specimen into a climate-controlled
> container with dessicant.
>
> When prepared like this, any specimen (including rusters) will be much
> more stable and last much longer. I've sold specimens of Brenham to
> customers years ago, and they still have them, intact and rust-free in
> their collections. No complaints.
>
> I think we also cannot overlook the initial found state of the
> specimen - some are inherently more stable than others because of the
> conditions they endured before being recovered.
>
> Lastly, there are intensive methods to purge contaminants and
> stabilize a sick specimen - whether it's regular old rust or something
> more insidious like Lawrencite disease. Different methods are out
> there and they vary in effectiveness, but some do work.
>
> Personally, I avoid specimens that have reputations of rusters, but I
> do not write them off entirely. I go on a case by case basis -
> depending on the seller and how it was prepared. Now, if I lost
> thousands of dollars on a big unstable specimen of something like
> Brenham (like Adam did), it would likely sour me to all of them
> entirely. So Adam's position is understandable. I just don't agree
> that all Brenhams are unstable rusters that will disintegrate over
> time. From my own collection, I had a ~30g thin slice of etched
> Brenham that I purchases from Robert Ward on eBay years ago. It was
> superb and rust-free. I had it on display in humid Florida for two
> years before reselling it. Last time I talked to the buyer, it was
> still rust-free - about 5 years after purchasing it.
>
> My advice is - if you want to take a chance on a ruster, ask a lot of
> questions regarding the preparation first.
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
>
> On 11/19/12, Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Looks very familiar. I had a complete slice of Brenham which I paid over
>> $2,500.00 for do the same thing. Some well-known dealer, which will remain
>> nameless for now which was more concerned with easy money coated it with
>> lacquer instead of providing a proper polish. The lacquer was the only
>> thing holding together the flexible slice as it made its way to the nearest
>> trash can. Some crystals popped out and bounced around the floor like a
>> baby with nasty diapers. What a mess!
>>
>>
>> I will never buy Breham again no matter what a dealer claims. To me, Brenham
>> is a level five ruster!
>>
>>
>> Happy Collecting,
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Don Merchant <dmerchan at rochester.rr.com>
>> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Cc: Don Merchant <dmerchan at rochester.rr.com>
>> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 6:28 AM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Admire Pallasite Destruction!
>>
>> Hi List and Happy Thanksgiving coming up to all of you. Anyways, I purchased
>> a 6+ gm. slice of the Admire Pallasite in May of 2011 from an eBay seller
>> with 100% feedback and of course I am not a fan of meteorites with a
>> reputation as a Ruster! The auction by this Seller bragged about how well
>> prepared and preserved his Admire specimens he was selling are. Well I
>> reluctantly bought a Specimen for a $30 price tag. Well now all of you on
>> the list can get a good laugh and view how well preserved this specimen was
>> I purchased! I have posted this on my Website so just click the link below.
>> If anyone else ran into this problem, contact me off list and we can email
>> the Sellers name. I did just email the Seller on this issue and the link
>> below to see for himself. Nothing as yet from him, but I just contacted him,
>> so I will give it some time.
>> http://www.ctreasurescwonders.com/admire_pallasite.html?r=20121118002710
>>
>> Sincerely
>> Don Merchant
>> Founder-Cosmic Treasures Celestial Wonders
>> www.ctreasurescwonders.com
>> IMCA #0960
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Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites
PO Box 4175, Hilo, HI 96720
(808) 640-9161
http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
http://www.ebay.com/sch/fujmon/m.html
Received on Mon 19 Nov 2012 11:59:32 AM PST