[meteorite-list] Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's Components

From: Count Deiro <countdeiro_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 11:57:07 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Message-ID: <19294498.1331578627621.JavaMail.root_at_elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Eric postulates...

"And this might be offensive to some, and I'm
>sorry if offends, but speculating that an anthropomorphic deity
>started it, is pure speculation, because no one knows what happened
>before, in the beginning, and it creates the creator to explain the
>unexplained formation of the observable. Why can't the unexplained
>stop and start at "I don't know, lets find out." instead of "god did
>it".

Eric,

I think the attached article published in the national media today will go a long way toward answering your question. This NASA scientist is described by his fellow workers as an evangelical Christian that insisted on proselytizing at work.
 
http://www.centredaily.com/2012/03/11/3122308/suit-nasa-specialist-axed-over.html

Most persons of faith believe they have had revealed to them the entire creation story and aren't interested in anyone trying to change their beliefs. They know, and I believe fear, that to accept any of the science would mean having to strip whole pages out of what they are taught is divine revelation.

Respectfully, I suggest you give it up, or take it somewhere else.

Count Deiro
IMCA 3536


-----Original Message-----
>From: eric at meteoritesusa.com
>Sent: Mar 11, 2012 9:08 PM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's Components
>
>Good points Richard, Michael, (I will apologize in advance for the
>length of this post; I started writing a couldn't stop)
>
>Divine Creation vs Natural Formation. That is the question. That is a
>VERY large part of why I love meteorites so much. Meteorites have
>allowed me a look into the universe and answer some very important
>personal, spiritual, and scientific questions as to the origins of
>Earth, the planets, and ourselves. Meteorites are keys to unlocking
>our past, the formation of Earth, the solar system, stars, galaxies,
>and ultimately the universe itself.
>
>The problem with the divine creation (anthropomorphic creator)
>hypothesis is that it's an assumption of observance. In other words
>the watchmaker paradox. The universe exists, how did it come to be?
>Something must have "created" it. Right? Not necessarily. That my
>friends is an absolute assumption.
>
>And the argument should stop right there, but it doesn't. Believers
>will argue that something can't come from nothing and non-believers
>will argue that everything came from what we perceive as nothing. (The
>Big Bang) Science and non-believers go one step further and say "We
>don't know what happened before the Big Bang." That is intellectual
>honesty and good science. And this might be offensive to some, and I'm
>sorry if offends, but speculating that an anthropomorphic deity
>started it, is pure speculation, because no one knows what happened
>before, in the beginning, and it creates the creator to explain the
>unexplained formation of the observable. Why can't the unexplained
>stop and start at "I don't know, lets find out." instead of "god did
>it."?
>
>Evolution, Panspermia, Transpermia, Abiogenesis, Planetary Science,
>Astrobiology, Astronomy, Anthropology, Archeology, they all help
>explain the universe and world around us.
>
>Meteorites specifically are absolutely a vital clue to unlocking the
>secrets of the universe because they (the asteroids and comets that
>make them) not only are they the very material that formed our planet,
>every single planet, planetesimal, asteroid, comet, meteoroid, and
>spec of dust floating around our star was once part of another star
>before, as are we. It's a cycle, a system, a circular system of
>formation and destruction, somewhere in between life formed.
>
>Why create a creator to explain the unexplainable? Why not instead use
>science to determine origins rather than speculate on a divine
>supernatural beginning. Empirical evidenced fact outweighs speculative
>assumption every time. We are in fact part of nature, not separate
>from it. We need not transpose an anthropomorphic creatot to explain
>something we don't yet know.
>
>Regardless of whether there is a divine creator, or not, no one can
>prove it empirically either way. (yet) That's what science is for. If
>there is, science will find out, if there is not, science will find
>out. Either way, the truth will only be the truth when we prove it
>with evidence, not speculative assumption of the observable.
>
>Regards,
>Eric
>
>
>
>
>
>Quoting Richard Montgomery <rickmont at earthlink.net>:
>
>> Hi Michael and List (a different Richard here!)
>>
>> Contrary to the often mis-conception that 'religion' and 'God' are
>> interchangeable...and considering the 'dangerous' ground upon which a
>> discussion of this sort may be inappropriate for the meteoritical
>> discussion here....allow me this thought:
>>
>> A person of 'faith' may not rule out transpernmia in theory; it simply
>> expands the pie. A 'religious' person tied tether-bound to a strick
>> doctrine may reject such an 'outlandish' notion out-of-hand, as it
>> disrupts the entire reality from which their foundation is built.
>>
>> In short, (in my small and insignificant yet human perspective), it
>> should be rational to allow both transpermia and a perspective of God
>> that trancends all current 'views' of even Christianity, allowing for
>> all three to co-exist....just a thought....
>>
>> Richard Montgomery
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Blood" <mlblood at cox.net>
>> To: "Dick Lipke" <RICHARDLIPKE at comcast.net>; "Meteorite List"
>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 5:02 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make
>> Life's Components
>>
>>
>>> Hi Richard,
>>>
>>> As an Anthropologist I can assure you all religions have NOT
>>> Viewed God as male - some were female and some were non-gender
>>> Specific "spirit."
>>>
>>> Garry, I agree with you - interesting topic, but I fear a good many
>>> On the list would see it as non-meteorite related in spite of the fact
>>> That transpermia (via meteorites) compels such a discussion about why
>>> People "of faith" would reject transpermia out of hand. They damned
>>> Near tortured Galileo to death for saying the world was not the center
>>> Of the universe (and he lived the remainder of his life under house arrest).
>>>
>>> Religious persecution of scientific recognition of inconvenient
>>> facts has always been part of history and continues to this day - most
>>> religions holding the view, "the way we see things IS the way things are"
>>> while others overtly state that view AND feel the DUTY to kill anyone
>>> when sees things differently - hence 9/11.
>>>
>>> Weird, weird, weird & weirder.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/11/12 2:23 PM, "Dick Lipke" <RICHARDLIPKE at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Micheal,
>>>> That is an excellent point that has always baffled me and I could never
>>>> understand the thinking
>>>> of any religion in this world. All the different Gods worshiped world wide
>>>> have always been considered a male.
>>>> Which brings up the problem, "Which came first, the chicken or the egg."
>>>> I think all these religions could be easier to swallow if their God was a
>>>> female.
>>>> That would answer the question, she "God" was a female carrying
>>>> the first egg
>>>> that resulted
>>>> in the birth of the universe.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Richard Lipke
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> A major element in the problem with most of those calling
>>>>> Themselves Christians these days is that they
>>>>> See God as an anthropomorphic individual. This makes it
>>>>> Difficult to see the "glory" or creation in anything other
>>>>> Than comic book images.
>>>>>
>>>>> They actually envision God as a big (male) human who
>>>>> Literally, with His hands, shaped Adam out of mud.....
>>>>> They cannot even see what a nearly perfect allegory that is
>>>>> For evolution arising from a primeval "soup."
>>>>>
>>>>> Evidence of transpermia is growing - but don't confuse
>>>>> Them with facts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Odd
>>>>> Michael
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/10/12 5:58 AM, "Dick Lipke" <RICHARDLIPKE at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Years ago I got a lot of questionable looks concerning my sanity
>>>>>> when I
>>>>>> brought up
>>>>>> the idea of meteorites being "the Johny Appleseed of of life on
>>>>>> Earth" to
>>>>>> members of my astronomy club.
>>>>>> Needless to say it resulted in many,many comments of out rage.
>>>>>> They reminded me of how it must have felt to be among the first
>>>>>> to refute the idea that Earth was the center of the Universe.
>>>>>> Lucky for me my kind of thinking came in 20th century, back then
>>>>>> they still
>>>>>> burnt
>>>>>> people at the stake for being possessed by satin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard Lipke
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's Components
>>>>>>> ScienceDaily, March 9, 2012,
>>>>>>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120309104845.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's Components
>>>>>>> Klaus Schmidt, March 10, 2012
>>>>>>> http://spacefellowship.com/news/art27926/meteorites-reveal-another-way-to-m
>>>>>>> ak
>>>>>>> e-life-s-components.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The paper is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Burton, A. S., J. E. Elsila, M. P. Callahan, M. G. Martin, D. P.
>>>>>>> Glavin, N. M. Johnson, and J. P. Dworkin. A propensity
>>>>>>> for n-w-amino acids in thermally altered Antarctic
>>>>>>> meteorites. Meteoritics & Planetary Science. Article
>>>>>>> first published online: 8 March 2012
>>>>>>>
>>> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1945-5100.2012.01341.x/abstrac>>>>
>>> t
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> best wishes,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paul H.
>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
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Received on Mon 12 Mar 2012 02:57:07 PM PDT