[meteorite-list] Hammer fall term (this poor poor horse)

From: Michael Gilmer <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:27:54 -0400
Message-ID: <CAKBPJW-EzfOMGSNWhd93CgoHZTNgQeuK_xWSo9h885dyJ9=N0A_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hi John, Ed, and List,

We are close to agreement. I always defer to the Met Bulletin when
calling any meteorite a "fall" or "hammer fall". Despite everything I
said about New Orleans, it is listed in the official Met Bulletin as a
fall. So I feel comfortable adding "hammer fall" to it.

I guess a "hammer find" would be more rare in some ways. ;)

Best regards,

MikeG
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG
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On 6/14/12, John Hendry <pict at pict.co.uk> wrote:
> Michael,
>
> great expositon, and a good example of what I was thinking about. However I
>
> am still failing to parse the language used to square with what would be the
>
> normally understood meaning in the english language. If I may quote your
> analysis here and there.
>
>> Let me put it this way - New Orleans is a recent example of an
>> unwitnessed hammer that is considered a fall.
> Got it.
>
>>  In this particular case, nobody directly witnessed the fall or the
>> damage
>> being done.
> Understood.
>
>> if it is a
>> hammer in the true and accepted sense, then it could be called a
>> "hammer fall" or "witnessed fall" or "observed fall" or just a "fall"
>
> Having cognitive issues at this juncture. If it isn't witnessed, but it is
> considered a 'hammer fall', then how can 'hammer falls', in their entirity,
>
> be a subset of witnessed or observed falls. Surely the definition of fall
> must therefore include unobserved meteorite arrivals (i.e. unobserved hammer
>
> falls).You cannot have a witnessed unwitnessed event. Well not in my book
> anyway. Then again I am not Orwell.
>
> Personally, I think it's bad nomenclature, but I can easily imagine how this
>
> sort of stuff arises. A few weeks ago after reading some of the many Sutters
>
> Mill accounts from the field I went for an idle stroll along a deserted
> track in rural Ukraine. I noticed in the distance some semilustrous
> subspherical objects, and for a while on my approach my imagination was
> giving rise to mild tachycardia. On intimate inspection I found some nicely
>
> dimpled droppings from a deer or something. After recovery from this
> crushing disappointment, I thought it would be appropriate to propose a new
>
> subclass of Leaverite called 'Meteorshite'. However thinking on this now,
> all meteorshites would not necessarily be leaverites. A bedouin coming
> across the wrong sort of Camel Donga (ok mixing continents here but give me
>
> some latitude please), might not be thinking leaverite, he might be thinking
>
> campfire for barbeque.
>
> Regards,
> John
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Gilmer" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> To: "John Hendry" <pict at pict.co.uk>
> Cc: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 10:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hammer fall term (this poor poor horse)
>
>
>> Hi John and List,
>>
>> Good question.  Let me attempt to answer.  If I fail, perhaps Capt.
>> Blood will chime in or another hammerhead will jump to the rescue.
>>
>> All hammers are falls, because if a hammer falls and nobody is around
>> to notice it, it will never be discovered....and is therefore not a
>> hammer or a fall.
>>
>> Let me put it this way - New Orleans is a recent example of an
>> unwitnessed hammer that is considered a fall.  When the New Orleans
>> meteorite fell, penetrated the house and left a path of minor
>> destruction (writing desk, etc), nobody was home.  The owners were out
>> and did not come home to find the cosmic damage until later.  In this
>> particular case, nobody directly witnessed the fall or the damage
>> being done.  If I recall correctly, there were no indirect witnesses
>> as well - no radar track, no fireball video, no other witnesses on the
>> ground.  The find was determined to be a fall based on - the freshness
>> of the material found, the testimony of the homeowners, and the
>> obvious damage caused by this material.
>>
>> Met Bull states that the New Orleans meteorite is a fall, so it is
>> therefore a "observed fall" or "witnessed fall" in officially-approved
>> nomenclature and accepted use amongst the majority of collectors and
>> dealers.  Additionally, some hammerheads may refer to it as a "hammer
>> fall".  Also of note, New Orleans is a single stone fall, therefore
>> the New Orleans meteorite is a "hammer stone" because it struck a
>> house and manmade objects.
>>
>> Under different circumstances, the New Orleans meteorite may have gone
>> unnoticed and unreported.  The lower 9th Ward of New Orleans is
>> desolate today, as a result of lingering damage from hurricane
>> Katrina.  Large stretches of homes and businesses are vacant and
>> falling into disrepair.  There are squatters, homeless persons, gang
>> elements, and other transients that reside in the area.  The same is
>> true for other areas of New Orleans to varying degrees.  If the stone
>> had fallen in one of these houses, with no first-hand witnesses, it is
>> likely to lay undiscovered and be carted off to the landfill when the
>> city finally bulldozes the property.  In such a case, the fall and
>> damage were never noticed, it is never reported, no material is ever
>> recovered, and the meteorite is never officially recognized or named.
>>
>> Also keep in mind, the criteria for officially approving a meteorite
>> as a "fall" has changed to some degree over the years.  Or could say,
>> the criteria was more rigidly enforced in some publications than
>> others.  There are several cases of witnessed falls where the witness
>> reports are several years or more removed from recovery of specimens
>> on the ground.  Some fall dates have uncertain dates or just a date
>> range (summer of 18xx, etc).  Some finds could be regarded as falls
>> and there is some debate or uncertainty around the circumstances (or
>> find location) that resulted in a fall classification being rejected.
>>
>> So, what I am getting at in a rambling fashion is this - if it is a
>> hammer in the true and accepted sense, then it could be called a
>> "hammer fall" or "witnessed fall" or "observed fall" or just a "fall"
>> - depending on whether or not the term is being used officially or
>> just casually.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>> PS - I think this horse is now officially pulverized beyond
>> recognition.  To continue this discussion line any further will
>> require someone to acquire a new horse for consideration and possible
>> flogging.
>>
>> --
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>> Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG
>>
>> Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
>> RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> On 6/14/12, John Hendry <pict at pict.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Any hammer finds recorded? i.e. there's a big stone in the attic and a
>>> hole
>>>
>>> in the roof, but nobody saw it fall.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
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Received on Thu 14 Jun 2012 06:27:54 PM PDT


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