[meteorite-list] Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 108, Issue 10

From: Jerry T Estruth <*caddisfly_at_meteoritecentral.com*> Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 07:32:25 -0700 Message-ID: <005a01cd4583$ba0a1e30$2e1e5a90$_at_net> · caddisfly_at_meteoritecentral.com

--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG
Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
-----------------------------------------------------------
On 6/7/12, info at moonmarsrocks.com <info at moonmarsrocks.com> wrote:
> I like Shawn's idea of some kind of coordinated effort to contact all 
> the victims of steelhorse1994's scam. This can be done by going to the 
> flake's ebay feedback list where the buyer username and what they 
> bought is clearly indicated. I believe Ebay has an anti-spam trigger 
> that limits multiple messages to 10 or so per day per user. As I 
> indicated before, ebay has no interest whatsoever in reaching out to 
> the victims of this injustice. In fact they did not boot him 
> completely off ebay, he is still selling other items like silver bars 
> (are they real, who knows?). People should contact ebay and demand he be
removed altogether.
> Do you think they will listen? His last rock sales were the first week 
> of May so the bulk of his over 1000 sales are past the 45 day ebay 
> protection window. Some of the victims may be able to get paypal or 
> their credit card company to do something. By the way, most of the 
> time he was starting the sales at a 1 penny auction and ending at very 
> low prices relative to the large size of the rock (the one I got was 
> at minimum 20-25 mg), which also was a tip off to me.
>
> More specifics: steelhorse1994 sold his fake moon and mars displays 
> from about October 2011 to early May 2012.  However, as best I can 
> tell for about a year before that (starting in October 2010 to Oct. 
> 2011) under a DIFFERENT username: "spaceterrain4sale" he was selling 
> them. He still has an ebay store but no items under that name and the 
> feedback can be viewed. And yes, at that time he was also selling deed 
> titles to land on the moon and mars and that dates back to Feb 2010. 
> My theory is he got in hot water with ebay about the deed title thing 
> in Oct 2011 and that's why he switched names and then only sold the rocks.
It's so despicable!
>
> I had already tried to get ebay to kick the guy off back in March 
> based on the bogus American Meteorite Collectors Society thing on his 
> displays, but they did not act. So, a lot of thanks go out to Dr.
> Korotev who was willing to take the time to analyze the rock I sent 
> him and provide the hard science evidence.
>
> Best regards,
> Daniel
>
> Daniel Noyes
> info at moonmarsrocks.com
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 11:58:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mendy Ouzillou <ouzillou at yahoo.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Microscope camera
To: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com"
	<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID:
	<1339095527.64000.YahooMailNeo at web114702.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I looking to buy in the next couple of months a microscope very similar to
this package http://store.amscope.com/sm-4tpz-frl-3m.html from AMScope.
Was wondering if the 3M camera that came with the package was appropriate
for viewing specimens (no thin slices yet).? My desire is to capture hi-res
details of certain specimens and post them online (low res thumbnail and
hi-res image).
Thanks,
Mendy
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2012 12:07:41 -0700
From: <info at moonmarsrocks.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fake moon and mars meteorite NWA's
To: "Michael Gilmer" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID:

<20120607120741.b86ea499b59be1b7298b47d2f1127a77.43c8150bfb.wbe at email13.secu
reserver.net>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Mike and list,

As steelhorse1994 & spaceterrain4sale, he used Lunar NWA 4881, Lunar NWA
4734 & Martian NWA 4925. They were always packaged with the NWA lettered on
the front and American Meteorite Collectors Society called out on the flip
side. He used what I would call "commonly seen" moon or mars images on the
front AND back side.  

Mike is right, some people don't want to think they were capable of being
scammed and respond negatively to the messenger. Like myself, many of you
were no doubt fascinated with space stuff as a kid, and still are, and he
sold a lot of these fakes during the 2011 Holiday season. No doubt, there
are a lot of little kids out there who don't have real lunar or martian
rocks. This is the kind of thing that makes me really p**sed off and
motivated me in this whole matter. He was clever, as they usually are, in
that he built up a top seller rating on ebay, and still has it BTW! If you
saw the recent episode of Pawn Stars, not all "silver bars" are pure inside.
Those silver bars he is selling now may be "filled" with something not so
precious.
And, yes, we need to be on the lookout for those displays resurfacing from
time to time. It is even possible he will repackage again, under a new ebay
username. Since they are fake, he could just change the NWA's with a simple
google search. 
Not to worry, Mike. Since I sell legitimate displays on and off ebay, I am
ever vigilant on a weekly basis in observing any lunar or martian
material being sold on ebay.   

I have to say Dr. Korotev was really accomodating, and for a person of his
stature to help out, that was fantastic. He gets a lot of email from people
with meteor-wrongs who think they have struck it rich, and he was probably
intrigue when I wrote him with the bizarro version that I was convinced I
had a fake...

Best regards,

Daniel
Daniel Noyes
info at moonmarsrocks.com
www.moonmarsrocks.com

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ebay victims of fake moon and mars meteorite
scam
From: Michael Gilmer <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
Date: Thu, June 07, 2012 10:56 am
To: info at moonmarsrocks.com
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Hi Daniel and List,
I really feel bad for the buyers of these bogus planetaries. Things like
this damage the integrity of the entire market. In the distant past, I used
to contact sellers and buyers of questionable specimens, but I stopped doing
it long ago. First, I hate being the bearer of ill tidings. Secondly, people
like to shoot the messenger and more than once I received hostile responses.
Now that Daniel mentions it, I do recall seeing those "titles" for lunar
real estate for sale on eBay. I had no idea it was the same scammer who
ended up selling the fake planetaries. The phrase "buyer beware" takes on
all new meaning when shopping eBay. eBay is not going to bend over backwards
to police their own marketplace because it's not in their financial best
interests. They receive revenue in form of listing and final value fees for
every item sold, regardless of whether it is genuine or not. And they are
not going to willingly reduce their own revenue in the name of integrity.
Integrity in the corporate world went out the window back in the 1980's and
it hasn't been seen since. The only reason they have stricter controls in
place for gemstones, precious metals, Tiffany items, etc, is because those
collectibles have larger collector demographics which are very litigious.
Under the threat of lawsuits, they have tightened their controls over
certain collectibles and commodities. We will not see the same for
meteorites because we are a small (by comparison) niche market.
But, be careful what you wish for. If eBay were to enact tighter controls
over meteorite listings, it could be a huge hassle for many legitimate
sellers. Do we really want corporate stuffed-suits and bureaucrats sticking
their noses into the meteorite market? That would be a double-edged sword
and once that Pandora's box is opened, there is no closing it. Is that
enough cliches in one paragraph for everyone? LOL.
>From an ethical standpoint, the best we can do is to mitigate the
damage that has been done by this bogus planetary affair. We can put all of
this out here on the record for all to see. All it takes is a simple Google
search (or Bing) to reveal the truth. Also, we must try to remove these
bogus specimens from the market as we encounter them.
The danger here is that someone will remove the bogus specimens from their
easily-identified containers and sell them in another form where they are
less easily recognized.
For the record (perhaps Daniel can help answer this), what NWA numbers are
"tainted" by these bogus displays? Luckily, the scammer appears to have
limited himself to certain NWA numbered Lunars and Martians.
These numbers must be treated with extra scrutiny from now on, until these
specimens are removed from the market.
Again, kudos to Daniel for doing the sleuth-work and Dr. Korotev for
donating his expertise.
Best regards,
MikeG
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG
Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
-----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 12:34:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: drtanuki <drtanuki at yahoo.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible Bolide Over Lebanon,	Cyprus and
	Turkey 7JUN2012
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID:
	<1339097667.47995.YahooMailClassic at web161201.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Dear List,  Site and WWW activity indicates a Possible Bolide Over Lebanon,
Cyprus and Turkey 7JUN2012.  Best Regards,  Dirk Ross...Tokyo
http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.jp/2012/06/mbiq-detects-lebanon-turkey
-cyprus.html
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 15:46:38 -0400
From: Michael Gilmer <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Bolide Over Lebanon,	Cyprus and
	Turkey 7JUN2012
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID:
	<CAKBPJW_XS4Zbt5Eh2QUru+pVQVAWJrh4YOW3A9dQSwLSoyfFiA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Any volunteers to go hunt on the ground in Lebanon?  ;)
Don't forget your Kevlar vest.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG
Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
-----------------------------------------------------------
On 6/7/12, drtanuki <drtanuki at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear List,  Site and WWW activity indicates a Possible Bolide Over 
> Lebanon, Cyprus and Turkey 7JUN2012.  Best Regards,  Dirk Ross...Tokyo
>
> http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.jp/2012/06/mbiq-detects-lebanon-
> turkey-cyprus.html
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 19:54:31 +0000
From: "Deborah Anne K. Martin" <dak_mar at live.concordia.ca>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ebay victims of fake moon and mars
	meteorite	scam
To: "info at moonmarsrocks.com" <info at moonmarsrocks.com>,
	"meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com"
	<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID:

<7538DE0CBB155F4A88EE5B18283FD8D51C86C317 at SN2PRD0102MB142.prod.exchangelabs.
com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Far from an expert here and a very small fry as a collector but two things:
1. The few times I bought meteorites were from established, honest dealers
(bought one from Mike Farmer for instance). It never ceases to amaze me how
gullible people can be, not that it excuses the scammers.
2. Since eBay won't budge, how about going media ? CNN, various national
newspapers, etc. Perhaps eBay can be embarassed to do the right thing
however reluctantly...
Andre
________________________________________
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] on behalf of
info at moonmarsrocks.com [info at moonmarsrocks.com]
Sent: June 7, 2012 11:46 AM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ebay victims of fake moon and mars meteorite
scam
I like Shawn's idea of some kind of coordinated effort to contact all the
victims of steelhorse1994's scam. This can be done by going to the flake's
ebay feedback list where the buyer username and what they bought is clearly
indicated. I believe Ebay has an anti-spam trigger that limits multiple
messages to 10 or so per day per user. As I indicated before, ebay has no
interest whatsoever in reaching out to the victims of this injustice. In
fact they did not boot him completely off ebay, he is still selling other
items like silver bars (are they real, who knows?). People should contact
ebay and demand he be removed altogether.
Do you think they will listen? His last rock sales were the first week of
May so the bulk of his over 1000 sales are past the 45 day ebay protection
window. Some of the victims may be able to get paypal or their credit card
company to do something. By the way, most of the time he was starting the
sales at a 1 penny auction and ending at very low prices relative to the
large size of the rock (the one I got was at minimum 20-25 mg), which also
was a tip off to me.
More specifics: steelhorse1994 sold his fake moon and mars displays from
about October 2011 to early May 2012.  However, as best I can tell for about
a year before that (starting in October 2010 to Oct. 2011) under a DIFFERENT
username: "spaceterrain4sale" he was selling them. He still has an ebay
store but no items under that name and the feedback can be viewed. And yes,
at that time he was also selling deed titles to land on the moon and mars
and that dates back to Feb 2010. My theory is he got in hot water with ebay
about the deed title thing in Oct 2011 and that's why he switched names and
then only sold the rocks. It's so despicable!
I had already tried to get ebay to kick the guy off back in March based on
the bogus American Meteorite Collectors Society thing on his displays, but
they did not act. So, a lot of thanks go out to Dr.
Korotev who was willing to take the time to analyze the rock I sent him and
provide the hard science evidence.
Best regards,
Daniel
Daniel Noyes
info at moonmarsrocks.com
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 13:40:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ron Baalke <baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Crater Shows Evidence For Climate
	Evolution	(Mars Express)
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com (Meteorite Mailing List)
Message-ID: <201206072041.q57Kexse001833 at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
http://www.esa.int/esaSC/SEMD285XX2H_index_0.html
Mars crater shows evidence for climate evolution European Space Agency
7 June 2012
ESA's Mars Express has provided images of a remarkable crater on Mars that
may show evidence that the planet underwent significant periodic
fluctuations in its climate due to changes in its rotation axis.

On 19 June 2011, Mars Express pointed its high-resolution stereo camera at
the Arabia Terra region of Mars, imaging the Danielson and Kalocsa craters.
Danielson crater is named after the late George E Danielson, who was
instrumental in the development of many spacecraft cameras flown to Mars.
Seen to the right (north) in the image, it is the larger crater, roughly 60
km across.
Kalocsa crater lies in the centre of the image and is smaller, about 33 km
in diameter and a kilometre shallower than Danielson. It is named after a
town in Hungary famed for its astronomical observatory.  

[Image]
Danielson and Kalocsa craters context

Danielson crater, like many in the Arabia Terra region, is filled with
layered sediments, which in this instance have been heavily eroded over
time. Within the crater are peculiarly layered buttes, known as yardangs.
Yardangs are streamlined hills carved from bedrock or any consolidated or
semi-consolidated material by abrasive dust and sand particles carried in
the wind.
They are seen on Earth in desert regions, with notable examples in North
Africa, Central Asia and Arizona in the United States.
[Image]
Danielson and Kalocsa context

In the case of Danielson crater, it is believed that sediments were cemented
by water, possibly from an ancient deep groundwater reservoir, before being
eroded by the wind.
The orientation of the yardangs leads scientists to theorise that strong
north-northeasterly winds (from the lower right in the image) both deposited
the original sediments and then caused their subsequent erosion in a later
drier period of martian history.
A 30 km-long field of darker dunes can be seen bisecting the yardangs and is
thought to have formed at a later epoch.

[Image]
Danielson and Kalocsa topography

The crater floor of Danielson shows evidence for a series of alternating
sedimentary layers with roughly uniform thickness and separation.
Some scientists believe that this indicates periodic fluctuations in the
climate of Mars, triggered by regular changes in the planet's axis of
rotation. The different layers would have been laid down during different
epochs.
By marked contrast, Kalocsa crater shows a completely different topography.
Here, no layered sediments are seen. This is thought to be due to the higher
altitude of its floor, with the crater not tapping in to the suspected
underlying ancient water reservoir.
Another hypothesis is that this crater is younger than its neighbour,
created when water was not present anymore.

[Image]
Danielson and Kalocsa 3D anaglyph

------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 13:51:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ron Baalke <baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Hosts Teleconference About Rover En
	Route To	Mars Landing
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com (Meteorite Mailing List)
Message-ID: <201206072051.q57KpRw1003715 at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
June 7, 2012
Dwayne Brown 
Headquarters, Washington      
202-358-1726 
dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov 
Guy Webster 
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. 
818-354-6278 
guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov 
MEDIA ADVISORY: M12-108
NASA HOSTS TELECONFERENCE ABOUT ROVER EN ROUTE TO MARS LANDING
WASHINGTON -- NASA will host a media teleconference at noon EDT, June 
11, to provide a status update on the Aug. 5, 2012, landing of the 
most advanced rover ever to be sent to Mars. 
NASA's Curiosity rover, carried by the Mars Science Laboratory (MSL) 
spacecraft, will land near the Martian equator at approximately 10:31 
p.m. PDT, Aug. 5, (1:31 a.m. EDT, Aug. 6). 
Panelists include: 
-- Dave Lavery, MSL program executive, NASA Headquarters, Washington 
-- Michael Meyer, lead scientist, Mars Exploration Program, NASA 
Headquarters 
-- Pete Theisinger, MSL project manager, Jet Propulsion Laboratory, 
Pasadena, Calif. 
-- John Grotzinger, MSL project scientist, California Institute of 
Technology, Pasadena, Calif. 
For dial-in information, reporters must e-mail their name, media 
affiliation and telephone number to Dwayne Brown at 
dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov by 11:30 a.m. EDT, June 11. 
Audio of the event will be streamed live online at: 
http://www.nasa.gov/newsaudio 
The public can follow the mission on Facebook and Twitter at: 
http://www.facebook.com/marscuriosity 
http://www.twitter.com/marscuriosity 
For more information about the mission, visit: 
http://www.nasa.gov/msl 

-end-
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 15:20:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rob McCafferty <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fake moon and mars meteorite NWA's
To: info at moonmarsrocks.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID:
	<1339107659.78044.YahooMailClassic at web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hi list
I would like to thank everyone for this informative thread. I have not
bought any lunar/martian meteorites for quite a few years now but as the
owner of a decent collection of planetaries, bought from a small number
reputable dealers whom you will all know well that i(we) trust implicitly,
it's nice to be kept up to date on the frauds out there.
I display my modest collection frequently and often loan them out to museums
and i'm often asked the usual questions, "how do i know they're real" and
"can anyone buy them".
My advice has always been to do you're homework thoroughly before taking any
chances since you are paying a lot of money for not a lot of material.
Following this thread, I now know to give explicit warnings to people and
what to watch for.
So many thanks
Rob
--- On Thu, 7/6/12, info at moonmarsrocks.com <info at moonmarsrocks.com> wrote:
> From: info at moonmarsrocks.com <info at moonmarsrocks.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fake moon and mars meteorite NWA's
> To: "Michael Gilmer" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, 7 June, 2012, 20:07
> Hi Mike and list,
>  
> As steelhorse1994 & spaceterrain4sale, he used Lunar NWA
> 4881, Lunar NWA
> 4734 & Martian NWA 4925. They were always packaged with
> the NWA lettered
> on the front and American Meteorite Collectors Society
> called out on the
> flip side. He used what I would call "commonly seen" moon or
> mars images
> on the front AND back side.? 
>  
> Mike is right, some people don't want to think they were
> capable of
> being scammed and respond negatively to the messenger. Like
> myself, many
> of you were no doubt fascinated with space stuff as a kid,
> and still
> are, and he sold a lot of these fakes during the 2011
> Holiday season. No
> doubt, there are a lot of little kids out there who don't
> have real
> lunar or martian rocks. This is the kind of thing that makes
> me really
> p**sed off and motivated me in this whole matter. He was
> clever, as they
> usually are, in that he built up a top seller rating on
> ebay, and still
> has it BTW! If you saw the recent episode of Pawn Stars, not
> all "silver
> bars" are pure inside. Those silver bars he is selling now
> may be
> "filled" with something not so precious.
> 
> And, yes, we need to be on the lookout for those displays
> resurfacing
> from time to time. It is even possible he will repackage
> again, under a
> new ebay username. Since they are fake, he could just change
> the NWA's
> with a simple google search. 
> 
> Not to worry, Mike. Since I sell legitimate displays on and
> off ebay, I
> am ever vigilant on a weekly basis in observing any lunar or
> martian
> material being sold on ebay.???
>  
> I have to say Dr. Korotev was really accomodating, and for a
> person of
> his stature to help out, that was fantastic. He gets a lot
> of email from
> people with meteor-wrongs who think they have struck it
> rich, and he was
> probably intrigue when I wrote him with the bizarro version
> that I was
> convinced I had a fake...
>  
> Best regards,
>  
> Daniel
> 
> Daniel Noyes
> info at moonmarsrocks.com
> www.moonmarsrocks.com
> 
>  
>  
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ebay victims of fake moon and
> mars
> meteorite scam
> From: Michael Gilmer <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, June 07, 2012 10:56 am
> To: info at moonmarsrocks.com
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> 
> Hi Daniel and List,
> 
> I really feel bad for the buyers of these bogus planetaries.
> Things
> like this damage the integrity of the entire market. In the
> distant
> past, I used to contact sellers and buyers of questionable
> specimens,
> but I stopped doing it long ago. First, I hate being the
> bearer of
> ill tidings. Secondly, people like to shoot the messenger
> and more
> than once I received hostile responses.
> 
> Now that Daniel mentions it, I do recall seeing those
> "titles" for
> lunar real estate for sale on eBay. I had no idea it was the
> same
> scammer who ended up selling the fake planetaries. The
> phrase "buyer
> beware" takes on all new meaning when shopping eBay. eBay is
> not
> going to bend over backwards to police their own marketplace
> because
> it's not in their financial best interests. They receive
> revenue in
> form of listing and final value fees for every item sold,
> regardless
> of whether it is genuine or not. And they are not going to
> willingly
> reduce their own revenue in the name of integrity. Integrity
> in the
> corporate world went out the window back in the 1980's and
> it hasn't
> been seen since. The only reason they have stricter controls
> in place
> for gemstones, precious metals, Tiffany items, etc, is
> because those
> collectibles have larger collector demographics which are
> very
> litigious. Under the threat of lawsuits, they have tightened
> their
> controls over certain collectibles and commodities. We will
> not see
> the same for meteorites because we are a small (by
> comparison) niche
> market.
> 
> But, be careful what you wish for. If eBay were to enact
> tighter
> controls over meteorite listings, it could be a huge hassle
> for many
> legitimate sellers. Do we really want corporate
> stuffed-suits and
> bureaucrats sticking their noses into the meteorite market?
> That
> would be a double-edged sword and once that Pandora's box is
> opened,
> there is no closing it. Is that enough cliches in one
> paragraph for
> everyone? LOL.
> 
> >From an ethical standpoint, the best we can do is to
> mitigate the
> damage that has been done by this bogus planetary affair. We
> can put
> all of this out here on the record for all to see. All it
> takes is a
> simple Google search (or Bing) to reveal the truth. Also, we
> must try
> to remove these bogus specimens from the market as we
> encounter them.
> The danger here is that someone will remove the bogus
> specimens from
> their easily-identified containers and sell them in another
> form where
> they are less easily recognized.
> 
> For the record (perhaps Daniel can help answer this), what
> NWA numbers
> are "tainted" by these bogus displays? Luckily, the scammer
> appears
> to have limited himself to certain NWA numbered Lunars and
> Martians.
> These numbers must be treated with extra scrutiny from now
> on, until
> these specimens are removed from the market.
> 
> Again, kudos to Daniel for doing the sleuth-work and Dr.
> Korotev for
> donating his expertise.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> MikeG
> 
> -- 
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG
> 
> Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
> RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2012 15:23:03 -0700
From: Chris Spratt <cspratt at islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Bolide Over Lebanon, Cyprus and
	Turkey 7JUN2012
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID: <4FD129C7.3010402 at islandnet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I'll go to Cyprus :-)  Been there several times to visit a cousin who 
lives in SW area near Paphos. Great birdwatching and darker skies than here.
Chris. Spratt
Victoria, BC
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 15:41:00 -0700
From: Ruben Garcia <mrmeteorite at gmail.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] A FEW MORE SUTTER'S MILL FRAGMENTS FOR SALE!
To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID:
	<CAH3bqe+dTtgX1oigW61xnp6L5EjFj4ceFoc8Lk5FGo9A_nW5XQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi all,
ALL THESE are CRUSTED Sutter's Mill fragments!
Most of these specimens came from meteorites that I purchased in
Coloma, California. They were then broken so that ASU (or other
University) could peer into the interior of the stone  - without pesky
fusion crust in the way.
The result is that ALL of the fragments I have for sale have fusion
crust - as scientists don't often like to look at the exterior of a
newly fallen meteorite.
Each crusted fragment will be shipped in a small specimen jar and will
include a card from me with the SM# so that you'll know the exact
meteorite and find local your micro came from!
http://www.mrmeteorite.com/sutterforsale.htm
THIS IS IT!  Since I returned last week no more have been found so
this may be your last chance to own something this special.
BTW- Ebay ending NOW!
http://www.ebay.com/sch/mr-meteorite/m.html?item=221043813741&sspagename=STR
K%3AMESELX%3AIT&rt=nc&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649&_trksid=p4340.l2562
-- 
Rock On!
Ruben Garcia
Website: www.MrMeteorite.com
Articles: www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2012 16:15:22 -0700
From: <info at moonmarsrocks.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fake moon and mars meteorite NWA's
To: "Rob McCafferty" <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID:

<20120607161522.b86ea499b59be1b7298b47d2f1127a77.7f84f95dea.wbe at email13.secu
reserver.net>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Rob,

Thanks for your note.  

One of the problems with the steelhorse1994 fakes is the guy was for the
most part targeting lower end gift shoppers by pricing auctions at a
penny to start and ending up selling 25mg rocks in a nice display for an
average of $17. When I did the statistics on his average sale price, I
knew something was wrong. He couldn't have sold a 1000 displays and
stayed in business with that kind of pricing. On a good day, the cost of
just the meteorite sample that size exceeds $17. Then add in ebay fees,
paypal fees, material costs, shipping costs, etc. It didn't add up,
unless of course he was grabbing granite rocks from his backyard!

The other side of this ripoff coin is this: I had a customer tell me
recently that she and her son were at Knots Berry Farm last week where
they saw "genuine" moon & mars rock displays similar to the ones I sell,
and they wanted $400 for the pair! She and her 8 year old were thrilled
to find mine on ebay and a $350 difference.

Your point on being careful about what and from whom you buy is well
taken, especially at the collector level where bigger pieces and bigger
prices are involved. But, the average Jane and Joe gift shoppers were
perfect foils for this fraud, which is why we all have to be diligent
about policing what we see around us on in our marketplace.

Best regards,

Daniel

Daniel Noyes
info at moonmarsrocks.com
www.moonmarsrocks.com

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fake moon and mars meteorite NWA's
From: Rob McCafferty <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, June 07, 2012 3:20 pm
To: info at moonmarsrocks.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Hi list
I would like to thank everyone for this informative thread. I have not
bought any lunar/martian meteorites for quite a few years now but as the
owner of a decent collection of planetaries, bought from a small number
reputable dealers whom you will all know well that i(we) trust
implicitly, it's nice to be kept up to date on the frauds out there.
I display my modest collection frequently and often loan them out to
museums and i'm often asked the usual questions, "how do i know they're
real" and "can anyone buy them".
My advice has always been to do you're homework thoroughly before taking
any chances since you are paying a lot of money for not a lot of
material. Following this thread, I now know to give explicit warnings to
people and what to watch for.
So many thanks
Rob
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 19:49:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Hardy <nwa5370 at aol.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Brief Guide to Earth's best Impact Craters
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID: <8CF131F596C5CE6-A84-10755 at webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/121029
David H
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 19:51:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Hardy <nwa5370 at aol.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Our Night Sky in the Future (Kinda OT)
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID: <8CF131F8EA1751C-A84-1078C at webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
http://www.petapixel.com/2012/06/01/what-photos-of-the-night-sky-will-look-l
ike-over-the-next-7-billion-years/
David H
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 20:09:30 -0400
From: Michael Gilmer <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Our Night Sky in the Future (Kinda OT)
To: David Hardy <nwa5370 at aol.com>
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID:
	<CAKBPJW9UCbKn7g-eN1BTV6-kYQiXO+D+dT0nqUHcG6G_0gVeVw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Wow, talk about light pollution!  That will be a staggering thing to
witness - if anyone is left on Earth to see it.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG
Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
-----------------------------------------------------------
On 6/7/12, David Hardy <nwa5370 at aol.com> wrote:
>
http://www.petapixel.com/2012/06/01/what-photos-of-the-night-sky-will-look-l
ike-over-the-next-7-billion-years/
>
> David H
> ______________________________________________
>
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 20:47:08 -0400
From: Michael Gilmer <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ID of Moon, Mars Meteorite scam artist
To: info at moonmarsrocks.com
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID:
	<CAKBPJW-t2oX+xxToQVHFdx7nqtUi0h4dLnHF1kdfNMy5TU3ZMA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Whoever he is, he's not poor.  Put that address into Google Earth and
check out the result.  He lives in an upscale housing development in a
huge house with an enclosed pool and a roof full of solar panels.
Maybe he bought it from his fraudulent proceeds?  ;)
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG
Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
-----------------------------------------------------------
On 6/7/12, info at moonmarsrocks.com <info at moonmarsrocks.com> wrote:
> Dirk sent me a good suggestion, to determine the true identification of
> the Moon, Mars Meteorite scam artist.
>
> For those that want it, as follows:
>
> EBAY Seller: steelhorse1994, aka spaceterrain4sale; John and Angela
> Maurer, 1453 Sorento Circle, West Mellbourne Fl 32904
>
> This is provided via paypal and the receipt for the sample I obtained in
> order to have Dr. Korotev perform his analysis.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Daniel
> info at moonmarsrocks.com
>
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2012 18:48:56 -0600
From: Chris Peterson <clp at alumni.caltech.edu>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Our Night Sky in the Future (Kinda OT)
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID: <4FD14BF8.2080603 at alumni.caltech.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
These are simulations of how the night sky will appear 
_photographically_, not visually. Andromeda is about the same brightness 
as the Milky Way, and it won't get any brighter just because it's 
closer. The night sky will look like it has two Milky Way bands, which 
intersect. We'll see a sort of Y-shaped faint gray structure in the sky, 
that won't have much impact on darkness.
What will have a bigger impact will be our Sun, well on the way to being 
a red giant, expanded out nearly to Earth's orbit. Not to mention that 
all water, and all life, will have been long since boiled or burned off 
the surface!
Chris
*******************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
On 6/7/2012 5:51 PM, David Hardy wrote:
>
http://www.petapixel.com/2012/06/01/what-photos-of-the-night-sky-will-look-l
ike-over-the-next-7-billion-years/
>
>
> David H
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 21:18:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: wahlperry at aol.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Sale Ad-Moapa Valley CM1 small pieces for
	sale
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID: <8CF132BB1964528-724-4C26 at webmail-m079.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Hi List,
I have some small pieces of Moapa Valley CM1 for sale. These are 
fragments from a recent slice that was cut. As you know Moapa Valley is 
the only CM1 available for sale to the Public. TKW 699 grams.
Here is a link to the sale page.              
http://www.nevadameteorites.com/nevadameteorites/Moapa_Valley_Sale_page_1_2.
html
Here is the link to the classification.      
http://www.nevadameteorites.com/nevadameteorites/Moapa_Valley_Sale_page_1.ht
ml 
Thanks,
Sonny
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 21:32:00 -0400
From: Michael Gilmer <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Our Night Sky in the Future (Kinda OT)
To: Chris Peterson <clp at alumni.caltech.edu>
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID:
	<CAKBPJW__=5v04WUwZe01ufOg2PkhL=WRChhtm3j7SOphS_MVqA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi Chris and List,
Great points.  Never thought of that.  By then, the oceans will have
boiled off and instead of big bodies of water, we'll have endless
"deserts" of salt dunes.  It won't be an Earth I'd want to live on.
Hopefully by then we'll have self-sustaining colonies on other worlds.
Best regards,
MikeG
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG
Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
-----------------------------------------------------------
On 6/7/12, Chris Peterson <clp at alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
> These are simulations of how the night sky will appear
> _photographically_, not visually. Andromeda is about the same brightness
> as the Milky Way, and it won't get any brighter just because it's
> closer. The night sky will look like it has two Milky Way bands, which
> intersect. We'll see a sort of Y-shaped faint gray structure in the sky,
> that won't have much impact on darkness.
>
> What will have a bigger impact will be our Sun, well on the way to being
> a red giant, expanded out nearly to Earth's orbit. Not to mention that
> all water, and all life, will have been long since boiled or burned off
> the surface!
>
> Chris
>
> *******************************
> Chris L Peterson
> Cloudbait Observatory
> http://www.cloudbait.com
>
> On 6/7/2012 5:51 PM, David Hardy wrote:
>>
http://www.petapixel.com/2012/06/01/what-photos-of-the-night-sky-will-look-l
ike-over-the-next-7-billion-years/
>>
>>
>> David H
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 21:34:54 -0400
From: Michael Gilmer <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Sutter's Mill Update - TKW now 478.09g
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID:
	<CAKBPJW__bptRvRPrpvtgf5xUESZXu6HZjw_m5yomNh-JkLE3PA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi List,
A minor update to the official Sutter's Mill webpage today.  SM65 is a
new 11.6g specimen that has been found and reported.  Interestingly,
the SM numbers make a big jump from SM54 to SM65.  So there are
apparently more finds which haven't been listed on the site yet.
The unofficial TKW is now 478.09g consisting of 58 finds.
Official page - http://asima.seti.org/sm/
Unofficial page - http://www.galactic-stone.com/pages/lotus
Best regards and happy huntings,
MikeG
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG
Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
-----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
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End of Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 108, Issue 10
***********************************************