[meteorite-list] Fake moon and mars meteorite NWA's

From: Rob McCafferty <rob_mccafferty_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 15:20:59 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1339107659.78044.YahooMailClassic_at_web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hi list

I would like to thank everyone for this informative thread. I have not bought any lunar/martian meteorites for quite a few years now but as the owner of a decent collection of planetaries, bought from a small number reputable dealers whom you will all know well that i(we) trust implicitly, it's nice to be kept up to date on the frauds out there.

I display my modest collection frequently and often loan them out to museums and i'm often asked the usual questions, "how do i know they're real" and "can anyone buy them".

My advice has always been to do you're homework thoroughly before taking any chances since you are paying a lot of money for not a lot of material. Following this thread, I now know to give explicit warnings to people and what to watch for.
So many thanks

Rob



--- On Thu, 7/6/12, info at moonmarsrocks.com <info at moonmarsrocks.com> wrote:

> From: info at moonmarsrocks.com <info at moonmarsrocks.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fake moon and mars meteorite NWA's
> To: "Michael Gilmer" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, 7 June, 2012, 20:07
> Hi Mike and list,
>
> As steelhorse1994 & spaceterrain4sale, he used Lunar NWA
> 4881, Lunar NWA
> 4734 & Martian NWA 4925. They were always packaged with
> the NWA lettered
> on the front and American Meteorite Collectors Society
> called out on the
> flip side. He used what I would call "commonly seen" moon or
> mars images
> on the front AND back side.?
>
> Mike is right, some people don't want to think they were
> capable of
> being scammed and respond negatively to the messenger. Like
> myself, many
> of you were no doubt fascinated with space stuff as a kid,
> and still
> are, and he sold a lot of these fakes during the 2011
> Holiday season. No
> doubt, there are a lot of little kids out there who don't
> have real
> lunar or martian rocks. This is the kind of thing that makes
> me really
> p**sed off and motivated me in this whole matter. He was
> clever, as they
> usually are, in that he built up a top seller rating on
> ebay, and still
> has it BTW! If you saw the recent episode of Pawn Stars, not
> all "silver
> bars" are pure inside. Those silver bars he is selling now
> may be
> "filled" with something not so precious.
>
> And, yes, we need to be on the lookout for those displays
> resurfacing
> from time to time. It is even possible he will repackage
> again, under a
> new ebay username. Since they are fake, he could just change
> the NWA's
> with a simple google search.
>
> Not to worry, Mike. Since I sell legitimate displays on and
> off ebay, I
> am ever vigilant on a weekly basis in observing any lunar or
> martian
> material being sold on ebay.???
>
> I have to say Dr. Korotev was really accomodating, and for a
> person of
> his stature to help out, that was fantastic. He gets a lot
> of email from
> people with meteor-wrongs who think they have struck it
> rich, and he was
> probably intrigue when I wrote him with the bizarro version
> that I was
> convinced I had a fake...
>
> Best regards,
>
> Daniel
>
> Daniel Noyes
> info at moonmarsrocks.com
> www.moonmarsrocks.com
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ebay victims of fake moon and
> mars
> meteorite scam
> From: Michael Gilmer <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, June 07, 2012 10:56 am
> To: info at moonmarsrocks.com
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>
> Hi Daniel and List,
>
> I really feel bad for the buyers of these bogus planetaries.
> Things
> like this damage the integrity of the entire market. In the
> distant
> past, I used to contact sellers and buyers of questionable
> specimens,
> but I stopped doing it long ago. First, I hate being the
> bearer of
> ill tidings. Secondly, people like to shoot the messenger
> and more
> than once I received hostile responses.
>
> Now that Daniel mentions it, I do recall seeing those
> "titles" for
> lunar real estate for sale on eBay. I had no idea it was the
> same
> scammer who ended up selling the fake planetaries. The
> phrase "buyer
> beware" takes on all new meaning when shopping eBay. eBay is
> not
> going to bend over backwards to police their own marketplace
> because
> it's not in their financial best interests. They receive
> revenue in
> form of listing and final value fees for every item sold,
> regardless
> of whether it is genuine or not. And they are not going to
> willingly
> reduce their own revenue in the name of integrity. Integrity
> in the
> corporate world went out the window back in the 1980's and
> it hasn't
> been seen since. The only reason they have stricter controls
> in place
> for gemstones, precious metals, Tiffany items, etc, is
> because those
> collectibles have larger collector demographics which are
> very
> litigious. Under the threat of lawsuits, they have tightened
> their
> controls over certain collectibles and commodities. We will
> not see
> the same for meteorites because we are a small (by
> comparison) niche
> market.
>
> But, be careful what you wish for. If eBay were to enact
> tighter
> controls over meteorite listings, it could be a huge hassle
> for many
> legitimate sellers. Do we really want corporate
> stuffed-suits and
> bureaucrats sticking their noses into the meteorite market?
> That
> would be a double-edged sword and once that Pandora's box is
> opened,
> there is no closing it. Is that enough cliches in one
> paragraph for
> everyone? LOL.
>
> >From an ethical standpoint, the best we can do is to
> mitigate the
> damage that has been done by this bogus planetary affair. We
> can put
> all of this out here on the record for all to see. All it
> takes is a
> simple Google search (or Bing) to reveal the truth. Also, we
> must try
> to remove these bogus specimens from the market as we
> encounter them.
> The danger here is that someone will remove the bogus
> specimens from
> their easily-identified containers and sell them in another
> form where
> they are less easily recognized.
>
> For the record (perhaps Daniel can help answer this), what
> NWA numbers
> are "tainted" by these bogus displays? Luckily, the scammer
> appears
> to have limited himself to certain NWA numbered Lunars and
> Martians.
> These numbers must be treated with extra scrutiny from now
> on, until
> these specimens are removed from the market.
>
> Again, kudos to Daniel for doing the sleuth-work and Dr.
> Korotev for
> donating his expertise.
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG
>
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Received on Thu 07 Jun 2012 06:20:59 PM PDT