[meteorite-list] International Laws related to meteorites link - good info

From: jason utas <jasonutas_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 16:14:11 -0700
Message-ID: <CAK837U1vp2PoSBEJ3w0SM0Sgh-5Bi2VBwft-OUGpJv-9Rb9JiA_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hello Martin, All,
I spent some time looking into the issue as well, after last week's...debacle.

I was unable to find a record of any actual laws pertaining to the
subject, but did find the article that Greg posted and put some
additional work into the matter.

As best I can tell, the existing arrangement is a domestic protocol
for local officials to follow if they obtain a meteorite. However,
recent meteorite falls in India have been commandeered by the
government by local officials (and, it seems, GSI employees) with
those officials threatening imprisonment if locals sell their finds.
I wasn't able to find any legal justification for this, but heard
similar stories surrounding both Katol and Sulagiri.

The circulars/letters in question appear to have come from the ruling
British Government as instructions for India's Government.

http://books.google.com/books?id=jRUTAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA120&lpg=PA120&dq=Circular+No.+22-1777+1869+Thornton&source=bl&ots=xNJjVEoCO4&sig=BLjQnyh5DiIn3kY-lwunvpx5Bvo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RZEIUISCJKfe2AWZm7DkBw&ved=0CEwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Circular%20No.%2022-1777%201869%20Thornton&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=jRUTAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA95&lpg=RA2-PA95&dq=Letter+2447+1869+may+india&source=bl&ots=xNJjVEpvP0&sig=wxRxybUsdq_cKITHbT4HfkYFXsk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=d5IIUKiVDsKg2gW72ZnGBw&ved=0CEgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Letter%202447%201869%20may%20india&f=false

As one can see above, "I am directed to request that all Indian
Meteorites may, in future, be transmitted to the Trustees of the
Indian Museum in preference to sending them direct to England."

It would seem that the above letter directly refers to the exportation
of meteorites from India as legal, or at least as legal as it might be
to export a meteorite from England (legal), since the law (if it can
be called that) was a British mandate.

The only person who offered any information along with their claim --
that the export of Indian meteorites was prohibited -- suggested that
the law had been in place "since 1885."

I, too, was not able to find any such record. I was also unable to
obtain a copy of Circular No. 13--975, dated 28th of April, 1863. I
would like to see a copy of it if anyone can find it.

Until then, and barring additional evidence, I would appreciate an
apology from Greg Catterton.

Regards,
Jason

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Martin Altmann
<altmann at meteorite-martin.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I always think, that debates about laws are vain, as long as one has not the very wordings of the law at hand.
> I don't have the Indian law at hand, neither I found anyone, who could show it to me,
> even those, who echo the date from the paper "1885" seem not to have it.
>
> I by my own found only the same words here:
> Circular No.22-1777, dated 10th of July, 1869, by T.H.Thornton, Secretary to Government Punjab,
> in continuation of circular No.13-975, dated 28th of April 1863,
> wich is, full quote of the text:
> ?directing, that all Indian Meteorites shall be in future transmitted to the Trustees of the Indian Museum.?
>
> I have no idea, whether that had a status of a law or whether it was only a service regulations to the administrative officers.
>
> Both, that one and the quote by Schmitt say nothing about ownership, export, compensations ect.
>
> Then -
> India became independent in 1947 and in 1950 a republic.
>
> I'm not sure, whether the old laws from the British dominion are still in place.
>
> If they are btw. what does that mean for meteorites from Pakistan?
>
>
> Furthermore:
>
> Hey reported in 1967 to the UNESCO Working Group on Meteorites,
> that meteorites in India would be treated as "bona vacantia" as given in article 296 of the Indian constitution.
>
> Find the article here:
> http://www.indiankanoon.org/doc/290059/
>
> It says that those ownerless objects found on the territory of India, of that kind, which before would be accrued to the King, will be property of the state or federal state.
>
> Well, I'm not sure, who is meant be the "King" from former time.
> Was it the English King George, Emperor of India?
> And if so, was then British Law in place in the colony?
> Because if so, then like still today in U.K. (compare the hilarious debate in the House of Lords about the "meteorite bill"),
> finds of gold and silver belong to the crown,
> all other you can keep.
>
> Questions and questions...
>
> Answer can give only the law, which is in place today.
>
> But nobody ever saw it :-(
> Martin
>
>
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: cdtucson at cox.net [mailto:cdtucson at cox.net]
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2012 19:55
> An: Martin Altmann
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] International Laws related to meteorites link - good info
>
> Martin,
> Welcome back to posting. You have been missed.
> You said;
> "The information on India doubtful"
> This law is spelled out very specifically and includes the words aerolites. How much more specific could you ask? . .
> In what way do you doubt it?
> As it stands right now. Anybody with India's meteorites in their collection has a tainted collection.
> If this info is incorrect there are hundreds of people that would like this clarified.
> Please provide proof that this law is doubtful. Site references or something.
> Carl
> --
> Cheers
>
>
>
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Received on Thu 19 Jul 2012 07:14:11 PM PDT