[meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past

From: bill kies <parkforestmet_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 21:57:39 -0600
Message-ID: <BAY173-W21BD1F776CC14666D5CC37A24B0_at_phx.gbl>

Shawn,

Thanks for the clarification. I feel safe now. On another note, I'd like to know why you refuse provenance until after your sales. I'd like to know the source before I bid. Not too much to ask I think. You explained that prospective buyers might try to circumvent you if they know your source but I don't think that applies to some of your micro offerings as they are so incredibly rare. Please explain further.

Thanks,
Bill

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> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 19:31:41 -0800
> From: photophlow at yahoo.com
> To: meteoritemike at gmail.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past
>
> Hello Mike G and Listers
>
> Awhile back I had also posted something on the List about galeriacores on ebay about questionable meteorites he has sold
> and also his past in trying to sell fake meteorites.
>
> The first link is a 7g moon meteorite with a starting bid at $550.00 in July 2011 trying to
> be sold by galeriacores
> http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/galeriacores/220806608402.pdf
> The second link is another moon meteorite with a starting price for $650 in July 2011
> with no reserve at 5 grams
> http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/galeriacores/220807099130.pdf
>
> The third link is another lunar meteorite posted to ebay on the same day as the others
> with a starting price of $455 at 5 grams. Right now this is a total of 17g of Lunar meteorites
> being sold for $1600, that's an heard of.
>
> http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/galeriacores/220807099130.pdf
>
> Here are a couple more links of other items galeriacores was trying to sell on eBay
> http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/galeriacores/220807514879.pdf
> http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/galeriacores/220809004478.pdf
>
> In addition to those post I was also informed by another List member about galeriacores
> buying and meteorite wrong for around $200 on eBay and then turning around
> and trying to sell it for $5000 on ebay. The links are down below...
> http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/galeriacores/160596972103.pdf
> http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/galeriacores/220806740213.pdf
>
> I had confronted galeriacores about the lunars he was trying to pass off as real
> meteorites and all he could say was those we hard times. I see a few of the meteorites
> he has sold are questionable and I have bought a meteorite from him which is very questionable
> and need to have tests done. I can say this, I suggested to him to go on
> meteorite central to clean his name when I called him out and he said we wasn't going to.
>
> I have noticed he has real meteorites for sale, the cheap ones, and then he has super rare
> and expensive ones that look to good to be true. From the past auctions he has done in trying to
> pass of fake rocks as real meteorites, I would say it safe to assume that there might
> be meteorite hes selling that are questionable today, and I hope that the people
> that have boughten meteorites from him keep them far away from the meteorite community
> until this matter is dealt with.
>
> Again, I am going by what I have seen in the past, what I got from him, and the fake lunar he was try to sell
> off as real meteorites.
>
> Shawn Alan
> IMCA 1633
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: MikeG <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Cc:
> Sent: Friday, December 7, 2012 3:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and with a certain seller.
>
> Hi Listees,
>
> I received many emails privately from concerned collectors. I think
> it is time to reveal what I know and to let the collector public
> decide what to do with their specimens that may be impacted by this.
>
> First, I do not have currently, or in the past, any material from this
> person. So I have no personal dog in this fight. My motivation is
> concern for the integrity of collections and the collector market in
> general. One bad apple can make the entire bushel look bad.
>
> As of now, I am acting primarily on my own in revealing this. A
> couple of other dealers are aware of the issue, but I will not speak
> for them or name drop. They can chime in later if they feel the need.
> Everyone agrees that this person is engaged in some questionable
> behavior that calls into question the authenticity of some of the
> specimens they sell.
>
> If this person reads this, and they want to respond, please do so. If
> we have it wrong, and there is just some misunderstanding at work
> here, then I hope the person will speak up on the record and clear
> this up. No hard feelings involved - we just want to make sure a
> given meteorite is what it is said to be.
>
> eBay seller - galeriacores
>
> website - meteoritefragments.com
>
> I do not know if the two above entities are connected or not. I
> stumbled across the second one (meteoritefragments.com) and while
> discussing it with another dealer, the issue of the first was raised
> (galeriacores).
>
> Galeriacores has been questioned on this List in the past - a search
> of the recent archives will show the discussion. It was a month or
> two ago. There was also a second issue with this person regarding
> mixed up NWA numbers and types - auction descriptions that did not
> match the data in the Met Bull. There were also a questionable
> specimen of Sutter's Mill that was mentioned.
>
> There is a lot of smoke and red flags here. If you have bought
> something obvious or distinctive from this person, you probably have
> nothing to worry about - an unclassified NWA sold for aesthetics or
> certain easily-identifiable irons. But, if you bought a small crumb
> or small specimen of something really rare, then I would be worried.
> This person also sells a lot of material that appears to be legitimate
> - which would lend cover and credibility to their other sales. So
> trying to figure out what is what may prove difficult. But usually
> where there is enough smoke, there is fire.
>
> Looking through Galeriacore's feedback profile, there are no negatives
> or ticked off customers. Everyone seems happy with their purchases.
> But, given the concerns raised here and previously, I would be taking
> a hard second look at certain specimens bought from this seller. I
> see some List members amongst this person's satisfied customers, and I
> see a few collectors who I have sold meteorites to. These people
> should take a look at their purchases and make sure everything is in
> order.
>
> The meteoritefragments.com website has taken (stolen) images of
> meteorites from myself and at least one other well-known dealer. At
> least one of the rare specimens listed on that website for sale is
> currently owned by another collector - the photo is stolen and the
> specimen is actually owned by someone else who was not aware of the
> website. Also, several photos are entirely wrong and not the right
> type of meteorite. The owner of this website uses a private domain
> services that cloaks the identity of the domain registrant, so there
> is a generic name, but no actual contact info. There is a name given
> on the website and an email address. I tried contacting the person
> and received no reply.
>
> That is all. I am sorry this took up so much time, space, and energy.
> Sometimes there is a dark side to meteorite collecting, and dubious
> sellers are part of that problem. Those collectors out there looking
> for genuine and authentic specimens should be aware of frauds and
> likely-frauds. Since I have not personally bought anything from this
> person, I cannot say for certain that I was burned. But there are
> some troublesome questions surrounding some of this person's
> specimens, and these questions need to be answered - here on this
> list, or in private with the collectors involved.
>
> If Galeriacores or meteoritefragments.com want to chime in and
> straighten things out for the record, then please do. If I am wrong,
> I will sincerely apologize.
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
>
>
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: MikeG <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> > To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Cc:
> > Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2012 8:19 PM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and
> > with a certain seller.
> >
> > Hi List and Concerned Collectors,
> >
> > Do not panic. I do not think this is an epic-level scammer of the
> > Madoff level. But I want to make sure we have all of our ducks lined
> > up into neat row before we call someone out in public.
> >
> > I will say this - it is someone who has been caused concerns to be
> > raised in the recent past on the List. It started some discussion,
> > but then the chatter died off. The person continued doing what they
> > were doing and may be connected to another shady endeavour recently
> > discovered. I know a couple of other collectors and dealers who have
> > dealt with this person, and we want to share data and see if it really
> > is as bad as it looks.
> >
> > It may be tomorrow before I have learned anything new or may have
> > something public to say.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > MikeG
> >
> >
> >
> > On 12/6/12, MikeG <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hi List,
> >>
> >> As a collector first, dealer second, and passionate meteorite nut
> >> third, I share the common sentiment that the integrity of the world's
> >> meteorite collections is a top priority for all of us. Whether it is
> >> a large museum like the Smithsonian or a small micromount collector,
> >> it is important that any and all specimens in that collection are
> >> genuine and labeled correctly. It is a shame and a disservice to the
> >> entire meteorite community (scientific and layperson) when a dealer
> >> knowingly misrepresents specimens as something they are not. Whether
> >> it's a big whole stone the size of a football, or a tiny Bessey Speck,
> >> it is of the utmost importance that the specimen be genuine. If it's
> >> billed, sold, and labeled as Tissint Martian, then it damn well better
> >> be Tissint Martian. I won't nitpick the weight 1mg or the other,
> >> because scales vary. But the material better be what it is sold to
> >> be.
> >>
> >> Secondly, if I am seeing a photo of a specimen for sale on a dealer's
> >> website, that photo better represent a specimen that dealer owns and
> >> that dealer shot the photo or has permission from the original
> >> photographer to use that photo. We've seen dealers who steal photos
> >> from other dealers and then try to pull scams and sell specimens they
> >> don't actually own. This is not an isolated unique thing - it has
> >> happened before, been pointed out on this List in the past, and it is
> >> happening again. I will say this, to my knowledge, the guilty party
> >> is NOT a List member that is active or known. This person may be a
> >> lurker, but they are not known.
> >>
> >> However, this person does have a website and they do sell on eBay
> >> using at least one or more seller accounts. Worse, I have seen other
> >> collectors and some dealers leaving good feedback to this dubious
> >> seller after purchasing specimens that may be in question now. Some
> >> of these people I saw leaving feedback are List members or persons
> >> known to List members.
> >>
> >> To my knowledge, this person is not an IMCA member. But, this person
> >> frequently purchases material from List members, known dealers, and
> >> IMCA members.
> >>
> >> I fear and strongly suspect that this person is spreading
> >> misrepresented material into many collections across the world, thanks
> >> to eBay and the internet. Some of the people who have purchased
> >> material from this suspect dealer are good people, people we know, and
> >> people who should now be concerned that portions of their collections
> >> may be compromised.
> >>
> >> I am currently conferring with a couple of other honest dealers who
> >> have some knowledge of this person and we will alert the collector
> >> community when we arrive at a consensus of what exactly is going on,
> >> how wide-reaching the damage is, and what we can say/do about it to
> >> prevent further damage.
> >>
> >> Stay tuned.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> MikeG
> >>
> >>
> > ______________________________________________
> >
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Received on Fri 07 Dec 2012 10:57:39 PM PST