[meteorite-list] Meteorite Sale - Rare Types - CambridgeEncyclopedia & More - AD

From: MexicoDoug <mexicodoug_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 17:55:03 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <8CE6565B65BAA34-1298-1042DB_at_webmail-m161.sysops.aol.com>

Carl wrote:

"Sir Ernest Rutherford said; "All science is either physics or stamp
collecting" This chicken or egg discussion is clearly stamp collecting."

Hi Carl ;-),

Are your suggesting that chicken arrived on meteorites, along with its
chickenfeed? If I were to adopt your form of arguing (which I am not),
Perhaps chondrules are just fossilized chicken poop?

Rutherford had to be a real pompous ass to say something like that ---
but even if he probably was, you have misinterpreted his meaning. He
would consider nearly the entire field of meteoritics "stamp
collecting", and I speaking for myself thoroughly enjoy stamp
collecting as well as chemistry (Chemistry was his real "stamp
collecting" target if you understood the context of the original quote).

To generalize a theory like evolution as "circular" ignores the reality
of how every domesticated animal and vegetable got on the dinner plate
or farm! It is not only testable; it is applied and practical, though
not gospel in a scientific sense. Evolution has been demonstrated and
is robustly testable, unlike some of the other questions you try to
compare with it by analogizing.

You are suggesting that we are begging the question, but the analogy
you use itself attempts to make an inaccurate caricature of the
scientific method. The use of the Rutherford attributed quote is
baloney in its fullest extent - an appeal to a non-existent authority
and caricature to the extreme to the efforts of others who are using
the scientific method productively.

I.e., Some topologists really can tell the their coffee mug from their
donut!

Kindest wishes
Doug






-----Original Message-----
From: cdtucson <cdtucson at cox.net>
To: Mark's Meteorites <mark at meteorites.cc>
Cc: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>; meteorite-list
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; MexicoDoug <mexicodoug at aim.com>
Sent: Sun, Oct 30, 2011 3:03 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Sale - Rare Types -
CambridgeEncyclopedia & More - AD


Mark, Doug, All.
This chicken or egg question does have an obvious answer because it
sounds
rather logical whether you are a believer in evolution or not. In fact
this
same obvious answer could be used to explain away a few million similar
questions ( other odd things) if you think about it.
It is a particularly good answer if you are involved in the very
"circular"
argument as evolution.
Because it reinforces the argument itself but , in order to be "fact"
in science
proof is required. Otherwise it is but a great theory.
I am not arguing against evolution per se. Just saying that sometimes
it takes
more than a good explanation to make things so. As in all circular
arguments
there are too many possibly wrong assumptions made to begin with so, it
is easy
to believe the rest. A one degree navigation error at the beginning of
a
journey can lead to a huge mistake.
If for example for whatever reason you believe that meteorites seeded
the Earth
with life you might lean towards the belief that all odd things came
from
different meteorites.
Oh and there is the "god theory as well. Yet another species of a very
different
"circular argument"?

Why must all scientific theories agree with previous theories?
None of us was around back then so it's not like anyone can prove us
wrong!
Sir Ernest Rutherford said; "All science is either physics or stamp
collecting"
This chicken or egg discussion is clearly stamp collecting.

Carl
Meteoritemax

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
Liberty
is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote".









---- Mark's Meteorites <mark at meteorites.cc> wrote:
> I'll ignore the debat about the origins of man, but this one:
>
> >What came first. The chicken or the egg?
>
> Has a very clear and obvious answer. The egg came first. It just
wasn't a
chicken's egg - dinosaurs and other egg-laying reptiles were around
long before
hens :)
>
> Mark Crawford
>
>
>
> On 27 Oct 2011, at 00:55, <cdtucson at cox.net> wrote:
>
> > Sterling,
> > Okay.
> > I have some real questions for you.
> > What came first. The chicken or the egg?
> > Seriously!
> > Also, Even if your statements are true.
> > Isn't there a missing link between not alive and alive?
> > And couldn't man have arrived here as a man and not an ape?
> > Why did it take man soooo long to develop if it derived from the
soup
already here?
> > Thanks,
> > Carl
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---- "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> One. There is NO "missing link between Ape and
> >> Man" since human ancestry is a "brush or shrub,"
> >> not a "tree."
> >>
> >> Two: Lucy is either ONE of many links "between
> >> Ape and Man" or One Cousin to one "link between
> >> Ape and Man," of which there are probably dozens
> >> of so-called "species."
> >>
> >> If this is confusing, just tell me WHICH of your great-
> >> great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents
> >> (numbering 1024) you are descended from? Or is
> >> it from ALL of them?
> >>
> >> For example, if you are a non-African, non-Asian
> >> H. sap, you have up to 4% Neanderthal DNA. Is
> >> H. sap. "descended from" H. neanderthalensis?
> >> Well, no. On the other hand... Well, yes.
> >>
> >> Human thinking about "blood lines" and "ancestry"
> >> is hopelessly corrupted by meaningless notions
> >> derived from antiquated tripe, of which the idea of
> >> the "Missing Link" is one.
> >>
> >> Three: There is no way (absent remarkable recovery
> >> of DNA beyond present technology) to "prove" any
> >> potential intermediary form actually IS intermediary
> >> except for good judgment.
> >>
> >>
> >> Sterling K. Webb
> >>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Becky and Kirk" <bandk at chorus.net>
> >> To: <geohiggins at yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>;
> >> "MexicoDoug" <mexicodoug at aim.com>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 4:51 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Sale - Rare Types -
> >> CambridgeEncyclopedia & More - AD
> >>
> >>
> >>> I don't believe that "Lucy" has ever been proven to be the
"missing
> >>> link." Science knows it will have to do better than that.
> >>>
> >>> Australopithecine has often been debated---but never proven as
such
> >>> beyond any doubt. Lucy and her kind still spent most of their
time in
> >>> trees as I recall.
> >>>
> >>> Kirk.....
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "MexicoDoug" <mexicodoug at aim.com>
> >>> To: <geohiggins at yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 3:35 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Sale - Rare Types -
Cambridge
> >>> Encyclopedia & More - AD
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On NWA 6077 / NWA 5400:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/320779119158
> >>>>
> >>>> "It may be the only surviving ancestor of Earth itself. The last
time
> >>>> such a important discovery was made is when anthropologist found
Lucy
> >>>> the missing link between Ape and Man."
> >>>>
> >>>> Hey John, or maybe the much more petrologically important link
> >>>> between Luc? and L'Aigle ;-) ?
> >>>>
> >>>> Kindest wishes
> >>>> Doug
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: John higgins <geohiggins at yahoo.com>
> >>>> To: meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> >>>> Sent: Wed, Oct 26, 2011 2:14 pm
> >>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Sale - Rare Types -
Cambridge
> >>>> Encyclopedia & More - AD
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Dear Meteorite List members,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> All auctions started _at_ .99 cents.
> >>>>
> >>>> All winning bidders will receive the New Outer Space Rocks 2012
> >>>> magnetic
> >>>> meteorite calendar. One per person.
> >>>>
> >>>> All non-auction meteorites 10% OFF & FREE SHIPPING.
> >>>>
> >>>> Please visit my eBay http://stores.ebay.com/Outer-Space-Rocks
> >>>>
> >>>> www.OUTERSPACEROCKS.com
> >>>>
> >>>> HIGHLIGHTS of auctions include many new and exciting rare
meteorite
> >>>> types
> >>>> professionally presented with provenance:
> >>>>
> >>>> NWA 6868 (5.3g Part Slice) Introducing a gorgeous Provisionally
> >>>> classified
> >>>> LL6 Breccia meteorite. Recrystallized, mostly poikiloblastic
clasts
> >>>> containing
> >>>> rare relict chondrule fragments in a matrix of related debris.
The
> >>>> presence of
> >>>> some recognizable RP chondrule fragments in NWA 6868 makes it a
Type
> >>>> 6 -
> >>>> otherwise it would be an LL metachondrite. The necessary
precautions
> >>>> were taken
> >>>> while cutting to ensure you have a nice stable specimen, this
slice
> >>>> is polished
> >>>> on one side with no unsightly saw marks.(
> >>>>
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NWA-6868-LL6-Chondrite-Breccia-Meteorite-5-3g-PS-/380378898246?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5890595f46
> >>>> )
> >>>>
> >>>> NWA 6284 (8.9g Part Slice) Introducing a new Officially
classified L5
> >>>> meteorite
> >>>> with some distinct chondrules. Olivine (Fa24.7-25.1),
orthopyroxene
> >>>> (Fs20.4-21.2Wo4.2-1.9). clinopyroxene (Fs7.5-7.8Wo46.6-43.8),
sodic
> >>>> plagioclase,
> >>>> chromite, altered kamacite and troilite.This is a beautiful
specimen
> >>>> from a very
> >>>> fresh meteorite with a weathering level of only 1/2 and a very
modest
> >>>> Total
> >>>> known weight of only 1021g This is a gorgeous part slice with
wide
> >>>> surface area
> >>>> polished on both sides with some fusion crust along one of the
edges.
> >>>>
(http://www.ebay.com/itm/NWA-6284-L5-Chondrite-Meteorite-8-9g-Part-Slice-

> >>>> /380378899755?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item589059652b
> >>>> )
> >>>>
> >>>> NWA 6077 (1.32g Part Slice) Incredibly rare, Officially
classified
> >>>> Ungrouped
> >>>> Achondrite similar to a Brachinite type meteorite. Many
scientist
> >>>> have
> >>>> considered this to be one of the most significant finds in
history.
> >>>> To put in
> >>>> perspective how important, this meteorite comes from a time when
> >>>> Earth was a
> >>>> primordial ball of molten rock. It may be the only surviving
ancestor
> >>>> of Earth
> >>>> itself. The last time such a important discovery was made is
when
> >>>> anthropologist
> >>>> found Lucy the missing link between Ape and Man. This is a
beautiful
> >>>> part slice
> >>>> polished on both sides. This meteorite comes with special
> >>>> documentation and
> >>>> Oxygen isotope information which pairs this stone to the famous
NWA
> >>>> 5400. (
> >>>>
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NWA-6077-Ungrouped-Achondrite-Meteorite-1-32g-/320779119158?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aafecea36
> >>>> )
> >>>>
> >>>> THE CAMBRIDGE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF METEORITES! THIS IS THE HOLY GRAIL
OF
> >>>> METEORITE
> >>>> BOOKS. The auction is started at only .99 cents and other copies
of
> >>>> this book
> >>>> are selling for hundreds of dollars. It's out of print and very
hard
> >>>> to find. A
> >>>> must have for the aspiring collector or student.
> >>>> (
> >>>>
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAMBRIDGE-ENCYCLOPEDIA-METEORITES-/320780774817?pt=Antiquarian_Collectible&hash=item4ab0062da1
> >>>> )
> >>>>
> >>>> NWA 6080 (15.3g End Cut) Super nice looking Officially
classified
> >>>> rare LL4 type
> >>>> meteorite with plenty of Well-formed chondrules. Olivine
> >>>> (Fa28.7-28.9),
> >>>> orthopyroxene (Fs22.7-23.5Wo1.5-1.3). clinopyroxene
> >>>> (Fs7.9-9.4Wo45.1-41.5),
> >>>> sodic plagioclase, chromite, chlorapatite, altered kamacite,
taenite,
> >>>> troilite.This would make a super addition to any collection and
is a
> >>>> fine end
> >>>> cut with some fusion crust. (
> >>>>
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NWA-6080-LL4-Chondrite-Meteorite-15-3g-End-Cut-/380379634749?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5890649c3d
> >>>> )
> >>>>
> >>>> NWA 6290 (3.11g End Cut) One of the newest Vestan
> >>>> siblings.Introducing an
> >>>> incredible, Officially classified Diogenite Breccia meteorite.
Made
> >>>> of Fresh
> >>>> polymict breccia composed predominantly of distinctly ?milky?
> >>>> orthopyroxene
> >>>> fragments and some polycrystalline clasts, with sparse
pigeonite,
> >>>> olivine
> >>>> (bimodal in composition), calcic plagioclase, chromite, troilite
and
> >>>> Ni-poor
> >>>> metal. Orthopyroxene (Fs22.9-24.9Wo1.0; FeO/MnO = 30.8-31.0),
> >>>> pigeonite
> >>>> (Fs28.1-29.1Wo13.4-7.0; FeO/MnO = 22/6-26.0), magnesian olivine
> >>>> (Fa12.9-13.1;
> >>>> FeO/MnO = 40.9-48.5), ferroan olivine (Fa31.0; FeO/MnO = 44.2).
Most
> >>>> of the
> >>>> orthopyroxene is charged with microscopic inclusions of chromite
and
> >>>> troilite,
> >>>> which render it pale tan-colored in thin section. The TKW of
this
> >>>> meteorite is
> >>>> only 1000g and this is a excellent end cut displaying some
really
> >>>> nice
> >>>> refractory crystals when exposed to light from different angles.
(
> >>>>
> >>>>
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NWA-6290-Official-NEW-Diogenite-Breccia-Meteorite-3-1g-Nice-/320780783954?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab0065152
> >>>> )
> >>>>
> >>>> NWA 6287 (67.3g End Cut) This is the nicest end cut from this
> >>>> Officially
> >>>> classified LL5 type meteorite. If you are looking for a nice
specimen
> >>>> for your
> >>>> collection and one of the freshest with a weathering level of
only 1,
> >>>> then this
> >>>> one is for you. This end cut has a huge section of sculpted
fusion
> >>>> crust and
> >>>> some beautiful contraction lines. There is not another one like
it.
> >>>> Inside it's
> >>>> composition is comprised of Some distinct, moderately large
> >>>> chondrules. Olivine
> >>>> (Fa27.0-27.1), orthopyroxene (Fs22.6-22.8Wo1.4-1.6),
clinopyroxene
> >>>> (Fs7.5-8.1Wo47.4-45.0), sodic plagioclase, chromite, altered
kamacite
> >>>> and
> >>>> troilite. This is not one to be missed. The auction is started _at_
only
> >>>> .99 (
> >>>>
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NWA-6287-LL5-Chondrite-Meteorite-67-3g-Choice-End-Cut-/320781300818?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab00e3452
> >>>> )
> >>>>
> >>>> OTHER AUCTIONS INCLUDE:
> >>>>
> >>>> NWA 2932 (9.5g End Cut) This is a really nice rare type
Mesosiderite
> >>>> meteorite
> >>>> that has plenty of visible metal on the polished surface.
> >>>> (
> >>>>
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NWA-2932-Mesosiderite-Meteorite-9-5g-/380379860505?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5890680e19
> >>>> )
> >>>>
> >>>> Park Forest L5 Chondrite Meteorite Riker Box Display
> >>>> (
> >>>>
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PARK-FOREST-L5-Chondrite-Meteorite-Riker-Box-Display-/320781345389?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab00ee26d
> >>>> )
> >>>>
> >>>> Murchison CM2 Meteorite Riker Box Display
> >>>> (
> >>>>
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MURCHISON-CM2-Meteorite-Riker-Box-Display-/320781309755?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab00e573b
> >>>> )
> >>>>
> >>>> You can conveniently view the sale _at_
> >>>> http://stores.ebay.com/Outer-Space-Rocks
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank You Have a Great Day!
> >>>> Sincerely,
> >>>> John Higgins
> >>>> Meteoritical Society Member and International Meteorite
Collectors
> >>>> Association
> >>>> Member #9822
> >>>> email: geohiggins at yahoo.com
> >>>> ebay store:www.outerspacerocks.com
> >>>> homepage: www.fusioncrust.com
> >>>> ______________________________________________
> >>>> Visit the Archives at
> >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
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> >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
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> >>>>
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Received on Sun 30 Oct 2011 05:55:03 PM PDT