[meteorite-list] Mis-Conception Junction (casual similarities to Brenham)

From: Dave Gheesling <*dave_at_meteoritecentral.com*> Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 22:59:09 -0500 Message-ID: <C55DE9CDA7C44EF6A5C9888640FB5FB7_at_meteorroom> · dave_at_meteoritecentral.com

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Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Meteorites & Amber (Michael Gilmer)
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
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On 11/11/11, Dave Gheesling <dave at fallingrocks.com> wrote:
> Mike G wrote: "I have only seen photos, but if I was presented with a 
> slice of each in a "blind taste test", I would be at a loss to tell 
> one from the other."
>
> Actually, you wouldn't.  What's missing is scale, and the Conception 
> Junction crystals are substantially smaller than Brenham (or just 
> about any other known pallasite, for that matter).  We ran some 
> comparisons, and I think the average Brenham crystal diameter was 
> about 7.5 mm compared to only
> 4.5 mm for Conception Junction.  It's strikingly obvious when you see 
> it in person, and there are actually quite a good number of other 
> aesthetic distinctions as well.  Then there are the comparative 
> analyses Dr. Wasson conducted, which are to some extent detailed in 
> the monograph and are beyond conclusive in terms of dilenating 
> Conception Junction's uniqueness from Brenham -- or any other known
pallasite.
>
> All the best,
>
> Dave
> www.fallingrocks.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Gilmer [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 6:22 PM
> To: dave at fallingrocks.com
> Cc: Michael Farmer; Dick Lipke; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: Mis-Conception Junction (casual similarities to Brenham)
>
> Hi Dave and List,
>
> The title of your post gave me a good chuckle - quite punny and 
> definitely appropriate.
>
> Nobody would blame Dr. Korotev for that mess of an article.  Although, 
> I think this entire affair can be laid to rest if some billionaire (or 
> lotto
> winner) would simply step forward and take one for the team - I have a 
> part-slice of El Hammami that I am willing to sell for several million 
> dollars, thus setting the precedent required to make the article accurate.
>
> While we are on the subject of this new pallasite, I'd like to bring 
> up a question that was briefly touched upon in the past - the visual 
> similarity between Conception Junction and Brenham.
>
> I realize that the analysis has been done and these two meteorites are 
> not the same.  However, is there some chance that the two finds may be
> casually related in some way?   To the eye, based on visual
> appearances alone, Brenham and Conception Junction do look similar.
> Now, I may be speaking from ignorance, since I have never seen a 
> specimen of Conception Junction in person.  I have only seen photos, 
> but if I was presented with a slice of each in a "blind taste test", I 
> would be at a loss to tell one from the other.
>
> Is there any possibility that these two meteorites might share the 
> same parent body, or be launch-paired in some way?  Are there any 
> similarities in cosmic ray exposure data, terrestrial age, oxygen 
> isotope (or any other compositional data) for these meteorites?
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
> -----
> Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Meteorites & Amber (Michael Gilmer)
>
> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - 
> http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - 
> http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
> Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> -----
>
>
> On 11/11/11, Dave Gheesling <dave at fallingrocks.com> wrote:
>> Michael & All,
>>
>> As indicated before, we're as disappointed in the sensationalism that 
>> hit the wire with this article as anyone, as if any of us knew about 
>> it prior, it obviously could have been prevented.
>>
>> Diana Lutz, the WUSTL writer of the first article that started the 
>> mess, however, actually wrote a nice article for the most part.  I've 
>> spoken with her at length, and she not only corrected the gross error 
>> in value -- she deleted value references entirely, which is quite 
>> uncommon in journalism today.  Her mistake, which jumps off the 
>> screen at those of us in the meteorite community who are familiar 
>> with meteorite values, was an honest miscalculation on her part, and 
>> she feels badly about it.  So at the end of the day, her work is 
>> probably
> undeserving of the descriptive "bunk"
>> (although I do share your frustration, Michael).  Her revised article
>> follows:
>>
>> http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/22942.aspx
>>
>> I should also note again that none of this was Dr. Korotev's fault.
>> He gave a great interview, and there was simply a disconnect in their 
>> discussion of value...nothing more.
>>
>> Some of the stories that followed when Diana's article was picked up 
>> have also been corrected or at least modified, although it's 
>> frustrating to watch reporters simply refuse to get away from the 
>> notion of "heavenly values" and that sort of BS (which was obviously 
>> the reason most of them ran the story in the first place, which is a 
>> shame).  Anyway, we've worked hard to stop everything that we could, 
>> but I'm afraid the mess will never be swept up entirely.
>>
>> Best wishes for a great weekend to all,
>>
>> Dave
>> www.fallingrocks.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of 
>> Michael Farmer
>> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 4:48 PM
>> To: Michael Gilmer
>> Cc: Dick Lipke; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Remember this common find?
>>
>> Considering that it is being publicly sold for less than 1/3 that 
>> price makes this article is bunk. Even Krasnojarsk hardly sells for 
>> $200
> gram.
>> Yup, this misinformation further hampers field recoveries. It is a 
>> spectacular meteorite, it is not $3 million dollars.
>>
>>
>> Michael Farmer
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Nov 10, 2011, at 2:26 PM, Michael Gilmer <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Dick and List,
>>>
>>> Conception Junction is a spectacular pallasite find and everyone 
>>> involved with the find should feel a well-deserved sense of 
>>> accomplishment.
>>>
>>> But, I cringe every time I see an article like this.
>>>
>>> Worth $3.4 million dollars?  Really?  To whom?  Something is worth 
>>> what someone will pay for it.  In the history of meteorites, how 
>>> many specimens have sold for millions of dollars?  To my knowledge -
none.
>>>
>>> Carelessly throwing around cash numbers like this is irresponsible 
>>> at best and damages the entire meteorite community by 
>>> unrealistically raising expectations amongst lay people who are not 
>>> knowledgeable about the meteorite market.
>>>
>>> Every article like this creates scammers intent on making a quick 
>>> buck from slags, landowners wanting astronomical sums for common 
>>> chondrites, and draws unwanted attention from legislative 
>>> authorities who might feel tempted to interfere with meteorite 
>>> market via taxation or regulation.
>>>
>>> I expected better from Space.com.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> MikeG
>>> --
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>> -
>>> ----------- Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Meteorites & Amber (Michael
>>> Gilmer)
>>>
>>> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - 
>>> http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed -
>>> http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
>>> Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>> -
>>> -----------
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/10/11, Dick Lipke <RICHARDLIPKE at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> www.space.com/13578-missouri-farmer-rare-meteorite-conception-junct
>>>> i o n.html I recall someone saying it was only a common find!!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Richard Lipke
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