[meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss

From: Steve Witt <stelor96_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 04:10:37 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <467608.43068.qm_at_web125517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Greg,

Thank you for your honesty. Why did it take so long for this to come to light??

thanx,
Steve


Steve Witt
IMCA #9020
http://imca.cc/


--- On Sun, 5/8/11, Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
> To: "Shawn Alan" <photophlow at yahoo.com>, jasonutas at gmail.com, "Linton Rohr" <lintonius at earthlink.net>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 3:07 AM
> Ok. I cant keep this quite anymore...
> Screw the lies and secrets. I think the truth should be out
> there.
> About Joes "awesome" stone...
>
> He told me personally and we also talked over email about
> it... he found it on the same persons property that someone
> else had already stolen a stone from.
>
> Yes, I know this because he told me directly. No second
> hand BS.
>
> He lied to everyone and even had a totally BS story
> published about his finding it under a bridge.
>
> So please, before anyone else goes to say how Joe fed his
> family, took a trip to disney world and what not, he lied
> about finding it and thats the true story behind the
> "Kerchner Stone"
> Yes, his family ate, but what about the person whos land it
> fell on? Ask her how her family trip to disney went...
>
> Joe, sorry man, but it had to come out at some time.
>
> I took public one person who stole material from Mifflin,
> anyone else care to out the other? I dont know the whole
> story, so I will let others tell that tale. I know many on
> this list know of Joes lie and also the other person... but
> I honestly doubt ANYONE will come forward on this.
>
>
> Greg Catterton
> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
> IMCA member 4682
> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
> On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites
>
>
> --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Linton Rohr <lintonius at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> > From: Linton Rohr <lintonius at earthlink.net>
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
> > To: "Shawn Alan" <photophlow at yahoo.com>,
> jasonutas at gmail.com
> > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 3:29 AM
> > Ahoy there, Jason, Shawn and list.
> > Intriguing? situation, Jason. Thanks for sharing.
> > And like you Shawn, I'm glad I got my beautiful
> little
> > slice from Joe. I didn't see all that much "drama" in
> it,
> > though. He put in a lot of work, and found enough to
> be able
> > to both keep some and sell enough to feed his family.
> That's
> > just plain cool, in my book. Thanks Joe!
> > Linton
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn Alan" <photophlow at yahoo.com>
> > To: <jasonutas at gmail.com>
> > Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:38 PM
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
> >
> >
> > Jason and Listers,
> >
> >
> > This is a very interesting post in the since I have to
> say
> > something doesn't add up. One an anonymous finder
> contacts
> > Carl and has him send cash to a PO box..... Red flag.
> Two
> > the phone number is disconnected..... Three the
> transaction
> > was done in cash. I have to say with those three
> elements
> > this would have to be a scam, someone got had. If this
> was a
> > legit sale wouldn't it have been done in the correct
> ways
> > via pay pal not some undercover 007 style, sending
> cash in
> > the mail to a PO BOX?
> >
> > As for testing goes, cant Carl Agee do a terrestrial
> age
> > analysis and also have a cre done which can prove or
> > disprove this theory that someone is suggesting that
> Mifflin
> > has two litholgies, which I have to say isnt the case
> and
> > that these stones are not related to Mifflin in anyway
> from
> > the evidence presented by Jason.
> >
> > Now the question is who was the scammer. I have to
> assume
> > that one this scammer knew what they were doing and
> somehow
> > was or is connected to the meteorite collecting world
> or
> > they are really smart and picked up how to scam
> meteorite
> > hunter 101. First of all they knew of Carl, two they
> knew of
> > the fall, three, they knew of what a freshly fallen
> > meteorite looks like and four the meteorite in
> question is a
> > real meteorite but not from the same fall.
> >
> > I think the scammer is one of us or is connected to
> one of
> > us just because of the circumstances of the event and
> that
> > the meteorite is a real meteorite and has fusion
> crust. If
> > it was a non meteoritest, I think it would have been
> a
> > stone, but this was not the case it was a real
> meteorite in
> > the mists of being a fake Mifflin. This is to good to
> be
> > done by some non meteorite collector but again people
> are
> > getting smarter these days to make some cash. But this
> means
> > that this scammer would have to buy a real meteorite
> to turn
> > around to sell as a fake recent meteorite fall.
> >
> > All I can say is if I came into this situation I would
> have
> > thought the sale would have been a scam right from the
> start
> > with me sending money to a PO box. Also I am glad I
> didn't
> > buy this stuff I was able to buy some from Joe
> Kerchner
> > which that had some drama in its self as well.
> >
> > My 2 cents
> >
> > Shawn Alan
> > IMCA 1633
> > eBaystore
> > http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
> > jason utas jasonutas at gmail.com
> > Sat May 7 21:12:16 EDT 2011
> >
> > Previous message: [meteorite-list] Where is everyone?
> > Facebook?
> > Next message: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
> > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [
> > author ]
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Hello All,
> >
> > My story begins in the summer of last year. I saw
> some
> > strange pieces
> > of 'Mifflin' on ebay that I thought looked funny.
> People
> > were talking
> > about the meteorite having two lithologies, but...the
> > slices and
> > individuals that I saw looked 'off.' A select few
> looked
> > like
> > H-chondrites, and they had the telltale signs of wear
> that
> > freshly-imported Moroccan falls bear: worn edges,
> exposed
> > metal flakes
> > on protruding corners (where the fusion crust had been
> worn
> > off due to
> > improper packing), etc.
> >
> > At the time, I did nothing but send a private email to
> Anne
> > Black
> > notifying her of my suspicions. I spoke with some
> other
> > prominent
> > list-members addressing it, and they all agreed that
> the
> > material
> > looked funny, but that nothing could be done about it
> given
> > the
> > required burden of proof.
> >
> > So, I sat on my hands for several months.
> >
> > Just over a month ago, I saw a piece of the
> funny-looking
> > 'Mifflin' on
> > ebay. It looked similar to some pieces that I
> remembered
> > seeing on
> > ebay months before, and, being an end-cut, I was able
> to
> > see both the
> > stone's funny-looking inside -- and the apparent
> metal
> > grains on the
> > stone's exterior.
> >
> > I used the 'buy-it-now' option to purchase the
> end-cut, and
> > it
> > arrived while Peter and I were in Morocco. When we
> > returned, I
> > promptly shipped the end-cut off to Tony Irving of
> the
> > University of
> > Washington; he agreed to analyze the stone posthaste.
> >
> > The results came back, but Tony wanted to wait until
> the
> > probe was
> > recallibrated so that he could run it again to be
> sure.
> >
> > Lo and behold, he did confirm that my end-cut was an
> > equilibrated
> > H-chondrite, with an olivine Fa of 18.6. For
> comparison,
> > Chergach and
> > Bassikounou both have Fa contents of 18.4 and 18.6,
> > respectively.
> >
> > University of Madison, Wisconsin performed most of the
> work
> > on the
> > Mifflin fall. Between them and the Field Museum, over
> > twenty separate
> > stones were analyzed. They were all L5. Mifflin is
> > classified as an
> > L5, with an Fa of ~24.9 +/- 0.2.
> >
> > I then sent Tony the link to the ebay auction so he
> could
> > confirm that
> > the piece that he had analyzed was indeed the piece
> that I
> > had sent
> > him. He did.
> >
> > I purchased my end-cut from Bryan Scarborough (IMCA),
> who
> > purchased it
> > from Michael Cottingham, who purchased it from Greg
> > Catterton (IMCA),
> > who purchased the stone with Carl Esparza from the
> finder.
> >
> > Carl told me the following story over the phone:
> > He was contacted "out of the blue" by someone hunting
> in
> > the Mifflin
> > strewn-field. According to Carl, the finder stated
> that he
> > thought
> > there was a "conspiracy against him," because no one
> would
> > offer him
> > more than $5/g. and he believed his finds were worth
> more
> > than that.
> > So, according to Carl, he then offered the finder
> $10/g,
> > and a deal was
> > struck.
> >
> > But...the finder asked that he not be paid via paypal
> or
> > wire
> > transfer; he wanted cash mailed to a P.O. Box.
> >
> > So, Carl mailed the money to the P.O. Box and the
> first of
> > two 'Mifflin'
> > stones was over-nighted to him the next day. It should
> be
> > noted that
> > Carl included Greg Catterton as his partner in this
> deal,
> > and Greg
> > sent over several hundred dollars to help pay for the
> > stones.
> >
> > Unfortunately, as Carl said over the phone, his old
> > computer recently
> > died, so he lacks the name and email address of the
> finder,
> > as well as
> > the number/address of the P.O. Box to which he sent
> the
> > money. Carl
> > is also unwilling to share the bank receipt from the
> > transaction which
> > would prove that he did make a large cash withdrawal
> for
> > the stones.
> > I asked Carl for the finder's phone number, but he
> told me
> > that he had
> > recently tried to call the finder, himself, only to
> find
> > that the
> > number had been disconnected.
> > He was unwilling to share the number with me,
> regardless.
> >
> > On the phone, Carl suggested that his source had
> likely
> > ripped him
> > off, and he said that he believed that it was the
> reason
> > why he had
> > been asked to send the money untraceably, as he did;
> Carl
> > described
> > the situation as a "typical scam."
> >
> > He also suggested that the stones *might* be from an
> > unrelated fall -- or could be the result of Mifflin
> being an
> > 'Almahata Sitta sort of
> > fall.'
> >
> > I can't disprove either of those ideas, but they are
> > unlikely for the
> > following reasons:
> >
> > 1) Almahata Sitta is a unique event in the history of
> > meteoritics.
> > Different lithologies have been observed in many
> > meteorites, but to
> > have individual stones of completely different and
> > unrelated meteorite
> > types falling separately is unique. Out of the 1,238
> > accepted
> > observed falls in the meteoritical bulletin, only one
> has
> > exhibited
> > individuals that have consisted of different
> meteorite
> > types (for
> > example, H + L, Ureilite + EH, etc).
> >
> > And it's not that we haven't been looking for similar
> > events; with
> > each and every fall, multiple stones are analyzed, and
> the
> > simple fact
> > of the matter is that they are always similar...with
> *one*
> > exception.
> >
> > So, Almahata Sitta is an exception. How much of an
> > exception? 0.08%
> > of meteorite falls are like it. Less than a tenth of
> a
> > percent.
> > Possible...but extremely unlikely. We also have to
> wonder
> > about why
> > or how this hunter managed to find the only two H's
> from
> > the fall that
> > were recognized. Over twenty other stones were studied
> and
> > this
> > finder supposedly turned up two or three that were all
> H's.
> > It's 'funny.'
> >
> > The other possibility that Carl advocated is that the
> > stones may actually
> > have been found in Wisconsin -- and they may be part
> of a
> > new fall that
> > somehow slipped under the radar. He initially
> suggested
> > that they were
> > from the fireball widely seen across the Midwest on
> May
> > 10th, but, at the
> > time, I had paypal records from Greg that stated that
> he
> > had sent Carl the
> > money for the stones as early as April 24th.
> > So we ruled out that possibility..
> >
> > But, I agree; the stones could theoretically have come
> from
> > a
> > different fall. The end-cut that I bought showed no
> visible
> > signs of
> > weathering. No oxide, no anything. Given the weather
> in and
> > around
> > Mifflin at the time of the fall, we can assume that
> the
> > stones were
> > picked up within a week or so of having fallen. No
> AMS
> > reports of
> > anything in the region for the given timeframe
> doesn't
> > disprove
> > anything since meteorites often fall without much
> ado,
> > but...two falls
> > in the same place *at the same time?*
> > Granted, it's possible. Not very likely, though.
> >
> > And you've still got to wonder about why no one else
> found
> > any
> > H-chondrites while looking for Mifflin. It's not like
> > meteorites were
> > laying thickly on the ground. Everyone who found
> stones out
> > there put
> > considerable time into hunting -- and they all found
> only
> > L5's. So if
> > Carl's source were telling the truth, and he did find
> the
> > stones, it
> > seems best to assume that he wasn't hunting in the
> Mifflin
> > strewn-field, because, if he were, he would 1)
> probably
> > have found
> > L5's, and 2) other people would probably have found
> H's as
> > well.
> >
> > The conclusion I draw from this is that the truth has
> > become
> > well-hidden. What is certain is that I have been
> refunded
> > by
> > Bryan, and I know for a fact that Bryan has been
> refunded
> > by
> > Michael Cottingham, who has in turn been refunded by
> Greg
> > Catterton.
> >
> > What I have heard, however, is that Carl has been
> defending
> > the
> > legitimacy of his stones, and is refusing to refund
> Greg
> > Catterton.
> >
> > Regardless of whether the material is Mifflin or
> another
> > meteorite
> > (from Wisconsin or from NWA -- it doesn't matter),
> the
> > simple fact
> > of the matter is that the material sold by Carl has
> been
> > shown to be
> > different from how it was advertised, and as such, he
> > should be
> > willing to accept its return for a refund. If he
> wishes to
> > get it
> > analyzed and sell it to others as a new meteorite,
> that is
> > his
> > concern.
> >
> > I am fairly certain that Bryan, Michael, and Greg
> > unknowingly sold the
> > material as Mifflin, believing that it was indeed what
> they
> > sold it
> > as.
> >
> > That is my 2 cents.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jason Utas
> >
> > ______________________________________________
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Received on Sun 08 May 2011 07:10:37 AM PDT