[meteorite-list] Gebel Kamil

From: Richard Montgomery <rickmont_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 17:21:04 -0800
Message-ID: <A73E706E6E18447F8E1DACD49CEEA996_at_bosoheadPC>

Hi List. Anne brings up an important point, "Be careful out there" and as
history has pointed out (our recent 'hello and welcome home' thread
topic )....(or back when a certain really really large Campo was almost
brought here)....

When I initiated this thread I was simply wondering about Gebel Kamil's TKW;
and now, thank you Jason, I know a bit more about Egyptian perspective.

Yet Anne's advice formulates this new question: should I/we all be
concerned about now owning (or eventually passing along) meteorites with
questionable legal provenence? Does this bring into question the specimens
in my collection for which I am not carrying certain export documentation?
Where/who/when brought SAs into the market, for example...and which ones
were export approved, given changing times and regimes?

When we take it further into the previous "collection card" issue we just
recently discussed, what repurcusions are looming out there? Should we also
have time-sensitive national legal definitions? (I'd hate to lose my large
Camel Dongas, or those of you holding pre-export permission anythings.)

Are posthumus or retrograde export laws possible? Will BLM decide to retro?

No, I'm not really worried, but Greg C.'s initial comment began to make me
wonder. I don't want to own anything deemed illegal.

-Richard Montgomery


----- Original Message -----
From: <Impactika at aol.com>
To: <meteoritekid at gmail.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2011 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gebel Kamil


> Thank you Jason for your well-thought out and researched response.
> However, that only applies to Egypt and the US.
> We should not forget that some countries have banned the exportation of
> meteorites entirely (India since 1885! and more recently Argentina) and
> others
> do require export permits, we know about Australia and Canada, but there
> might be others.
>
> You really need to be careful out there!
>
> Anne M. Black
> _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/)
> _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com)
> President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
> _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/)
>
>
> In a message dated 3/12/2011 2:35:13 PM Mountain Standard Time,
> meteoritekid at gmail.com writes:
> Hello Richard, Greg, All,
>
> To date an estimated 2-3 tonnes of shrapnel fragments have been
> recovered, ranging in weight from a few grams to 35 kilograms. One
> regmaglypted individual was found, weighing 83kg. It was discovered
> and retained by the scientific expedition that first explored the
> crater, so all that will be available for the likes of us are pieces
> of shrapnel produced by the violent destruction of the main mass when
> it produced the crater.
>
> some have asserted that it is illegal to export meteorites from Egypt
> without approval from the state. I looked into the issue, and, as
> best I can tell, this is entirely untrue. It seems as though the
> academics involved in the discovery and exploration of the crater
> decided to attempt to apply the Egyptian antiquities law that refers
> specifically to man-made/cultural artifacts - to meteorites. In light
> of that fact, I believe that all of the specimens exported legal, at
> least until Egypt passes a law that acutally prohibits the export of
> minerals specimens and/or meteorites.
>
> See here: http://www.cprinst.org/cultural-heritage-legislation-in-egypt
>
> Since there are no clear laws pertaining to meteorites, the real
> question is whether or not a meteorite can be said to have "cultural
> value."
> If we break this idea down, the real question we need to ask pertains
> to the definition of what can be termed "cultural."
>
> To my kowledge, at least in Egypt, 'law 117' has never been applied to
> objects that were not human artifacts. (Never.)
> The scientists working on the meteorite claimed that export permits
> were required for meteorites because, "Everything which is found in
> the Egyptian soil is property of the government." (Tarek Hussein,
> former president of Egypt's Academy of Scientific Research and
> Technology)
>
> http://www.sott.net/articles/show/213262-Deep-impact-market-the-race-to-acqu
> ire-meteorites
>
> While this claim may be correct in the sense that objects on the
> public land of any country belong to the federal or state government
> with jurisdiction over the given land, if there are no export laws
> pertaining to a given resource, it is not illegal to export it.
>
> For a perfect example, note that all meteorites found on public and
> BLM land in the US technically belong to the US government. Since
> there are no US laws pertaining to the export of US meteorites, and
> the government does not enforce their ownership of any of these
> meteorites (with one historic exception), it is generally viewed as
> legal to export meteorites from the US -- even those found on public
> land.
>
> Regards,
> Jason
>
> On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Greg Catterton
> <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Prices are interesting with the meteorite. I do know that most of the
> material on the market is "stolen" and should not be sold. Egypt does not
> allow
> the export of meteorites and last I read, only about 2kg was approved for
> export.
>> Its a nice meteorite, but should be considered illegal just like Berduc
> and others that come from countries with harsh export laws.
>>
>> Greg Catterton
>> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
>> IMCA member 4682
>> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
>> On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites
>>
>>
>> --- On Fri, 3/11/11, Richard Montgomery <rickmont at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Richard Montgomery <rickmont at earthlink.net>
>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Gebel Kamil
>>> To: "'Meteorite-list List'" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Date: Friday, March 11, 2011, 9:13 PM
>>> Hello List. Taking a breath for
>>> a minute following the disaster in Japan, for welcome
>>> relief (yet God bless them please).... I'll ask about
>>> this since I've been wondering for a while since the crater
>>> was announced:
>>>
>>> Do we yet have an estimated TKW of Gebel Kamil? Also,
>>> those first images of the couple (I've only seen two) of
>>> complete regmaglypted individuals are somewhere unknown to
>>> me, but wow!! Which reflects on my next query...what
>>> other 'individual-shrapnel' occurance events to we know of?
>>>
>>> I'm fortunate to own a few nice sand-blasted pieces, as
>>> many of us are. The auction prices seem low to me.
>>>
>>> Just curious, and wondering.
>>>
>>> -Richard Montgomery
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Received on Sat 12 Mar 2011 08:21:04 PM PST