[meteorite-list] NASA could sell...

From: Mark Ford <mark.ford_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:23:24 +0000
Message-ID: <3D7A674A041FFB4DBA68772C82FB4A07215EE482_at_GAMMA2.ssl.atw>

Personally I completely disagree with the cost estimate of 5-8 billion, a simple small robotic sample mission really ought to be not too difficult (Russia did Lunar sample return on a total shoestring in the 60's). I would send a simple, small lander, grab some rocks in a scoop then take off and return. (Turning the mission into a full rover prospecting mission is bound to increase the cost drastically!)

 The stardust mission for example cost around $200 Million (that was a sample return all be it a space capture). A lunar sample return would be much cheaper than a Martian one obviously, but small mars rocket motor designs and a return module have already been studied in several different NASA/ESA feasibility proposals, and I would be surprised if they cost anything like 5 Billion, I rekon it could be done for less than $500 Million, if it was a simple small grab and return system.

 I'd also do it using a cheaper and more fuel efficient return method than traditionally, such as Ion engine technology, it would take much longer but would require much less of a fuel payload than a conventional return to earth would, then I would advocate using the ISS as a capture and return lab, rather than risking a traditional re-entry, this would save money too, as you wouldn't be returning a complete re-entry vehicle back from mars!

I think you would easily sell a few kilos of Apollo moon rock with no trouble at all, there are enough rich billionaires (probably they would not even be meteorite collectors) out there who would snap it up, it would be a truly unique opportunity this would attract plenty of speculators -it would be a different market than meteorite samples.

Besides plenty of people would buy microscopic amounts (put me down for an Apollo 11 super-micro any time!!).

Best,
Mark







-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Martin Altmann
Sent: 27 June 2011 13:13
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA could sell...

Hi Mark,

>I estimate we probably could fund an automatic sample return mission to
both mars [and] to the moon, just for >the 'cost' of a few off cut Apollo
lunar chunks..

Well the cost estimation of an automatic Mars sample return mission, then a
cooperation between NASA & ESA - a rover probing different Martian rocks on
surface - and where 500grams shall be expedited back to Earth - is estimated
in the 5-8 billion $ range.

Makes up a gram price, if you want to cover it with the sale of half of the
Apollo rocks, of something around 35k$.
(But who shall buy that stuff? - after 13 years STILL not all of DaG 400 is
sold, and that at current prices around 1k$/g - and that stone had only
1.4kg...).

Hmm, my last mail didn't made it through.

Best!
Martin

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Mark
Ford
Gesendet: Montag, 27. Juni 2011 13:41
An: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA could sell...


I certainly don't think NASA should sell all the moon rock, but I don't see
any harm in selling off a few very carefully selected waste pieces
(currently they even count back and store all the waste dust from cutting
losses!), there must be a large amount of material that is contaminated by
the terrestrial environment by processing/handling etc, that has no special
value to science (it's useless). Especially if this money was genuinely used
to further space research (naively assuming it really was used for this!),
it could actually be used to fund a lot more space/lunar research!

I estimate we probably could fund an automatic sample return mission to both
mars [and] to the moon, just for the 'cost' of a few off cut Apollo lunar
chunks..



Mark




-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Martin
Altmann
Sent: 27 June 2011 08:59
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA could sell...

To sell the Apollo rocks? Have you taken leave of your senses?!?

Those rocks, which the heroes of my youth brought back, risking their lives,
and in the greatest technical adventure of all times??

You're all watching too much TV! Too much science fiction!

We can't go around in the solar system in that way you're taking a cab!
Manned spaceflight is extremely difficult and extremely dangerous.

Look what we can do. At the moment we have an assemblage of tin cans in such
a low orbit, a kind of water ski in spaceflight, in a so low orbit, that the
grandmas call the police, whenever the ISS cross over their heads!
And more we cannot!

Now we are all trembling, that the little box called "Dawn" will not fail
and send us some data from the front garden of our tiny solar system.

Lunar materials, think to the millions of man-hours spent in the deserts, to
assemble the tiny pile of lunar meteorites, so small and light-weighted,
that everyone of us can lift it without difficulties.
(And think about that, whenever your nose starts to wrinkle, when such a
specimen offered is lousy 100 bucks more expensive per gram than you
expected.)

And although I feel still quite healthy, I won't live to see a man or woman
on Moon again (not to mention Mars).

Really.
Rather sell the Brooklyn Bridge.

And which meteorites shall NASA sell?
Those from ANSMET?
That isn't possible because the Antarctic Treaty prevents that,

and hey - we're all buyers and sellers of meteorites, so we definitely know,
that the revenues would be out of absolutely all proportion to the expenses
paid to collect these meteorites.
And thus, it would be even probably elements of offence, a misappropriation.

Huh, we're just selling a brachinite, the freshest available, where in 36
years of Antarctic searches by all countries together not more than 3
different were found, together half a pound.
And we are selling that one in slices and not in bulk - and at a total,
wherefore you can pay having an ANSMET-Team exactly one single day on the
ice!
These are the relations.

It is absolutely necessary, that the ANSMET meteorites stay in the courtesy
of governmental institutes and universities - their acquisition was
expensive enough! (No offense, in my eyes these costs are fully justified).
To sell them on the market would bring in peanuts compared to that, what the
taxpayer had spent for them.

And Richard, who says, that NASA wouldn't buy meteorites?
Nasa consists of hundreds of departments - of course if you address to the
janitor, he won't buy a meteorite.
But those exploring the solar system do, of course.

And the abnormal opinion of people, pretending to be scientists interested
in meteorites,
that a Moon or a chondrite is per se a crime,
that you found at best in countries with an underdeveloped meteorite
research like e.g. Australia or Oman,
but certainly not in USA.

;-)
Martin






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Received on Mon 27 Jun 2011 10:23:24 AM PDT