[meteorite-list] Moon Dust

From: Michael Gilmer <*meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com*> Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 18:49:57 -0400 Message-ID: <BANLkTimO3xCpeDC=xPprQv5iixg3LP9XsQ_at_mail.gmail.com> · meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com

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Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Meteorites & Amber (Michael Gilmer)
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On 6/25/11, Rafael Navarro <rafael.navarro7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear boy, NOT is matter you win or lose ... just about knowledge. You can
> live to be one of the bunch ... or be special even though it seems one of
> the bunch. The difference is inside, in your head, in  your soul, you can
> understand? You don't must to have a college degree ... just  investigate ,
>  think. Do not to believe whole what others tell you.
> In the case where a NASA intern stole a sample from JSC, he was prosecuted
> and rightfully so. *Sure this is a intent stolen.* *That is illegal.*
> *What I am saying is that  NASA gave lunar rock samples brought to Earth by
> the Apollo 11 mission without having studied it and does not want this fact
> be known to the public. I think I can prove this.O.K. *
> *                                                                   Maybe
> you want read.
> *
> *                                             *
> *ABOUT SANTA CLAUS , METEORITES AND MOON-ROCKS*
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *This is written to teach the younger generation to not swallow without
> chewing enough.*
> *
> *
> *This is one of those stories that people don?t like to read if they never
> want to admit they have ever been deceived, and they do not want to accept
> it because it would make them feel like fools, and this makes me remember
> the history of Santa.*
> *My parents raised me with the belief that Santa would bring.*
> *Until one time when I turned 12 years old...my father told me the truth and
> gave me the  gifts that He  had bought for me.- At that time, I felt
> something  rare  ... but...actually I had already begun to suspect.*
> *Then the lack of maturity, or perhaps the desire to feel like an adult gave
> me the desire to share the information that I had received with smaller boys
> and then to my surprise and satisfaction I saw that some did not want  to
> believe what I was saying .-*
> *Now I am aware , really: "Nobody is blinder than he who will not see."*
> *The innocence in a child is beautiful, but in an adult is just ugly
> ignorance ... and that reminds me:'Youth is a disease that is cured with the
> years ... but some people do not heal ever because  ...or are so stupid that
> definitely they can not be cured"(I hope some young genius no be offended.)*
> *
> *
> *Before you go ahead reading please keep in mind that: 'The reality goes far
> beyond any imagination.'*
> *
> *
> *
> Some data CURIOSOS.-About Moonrock
>
> NASA has long tried to hide the delivery of the moon-rock  Apollo 11, why?
> ... Because they were given away without being studied or classified, even
> arrange the handover of March 21, 1973 at a ceremony very well assembled,
> which was given much publicity to try below it to camouflage the delivery
> previous of moon- rocks .
> What else could be the reason for this second?
>
> *But read this article published by AP about what happened in Holland.
>
>  "NASA turned over the samples to the State Department to distribute," said
> Jennifer Ross-Nazzal, a NASA historian, in an e-mailer response to
> questions. "We Do not Have Any records about When the rocks and to Whom Were
> Given."
>
> "The Office of the Historian does not keep records of what Became of the
> moon rocks, and to my Knowledge, There Is That entity no one does so,"
> emailed Tiffany Hamelin, the State Department historian.
>
> Summarizing the issue: All the "Goodwill Moonrock" that were delivered on 21
> Marzo/73 were part of  the sample # 70017 .- "Each presentation included
> 0.05 grams of" dust "(encased in lucite) retrieved by the Apollo 17
> astronauts, as well as a flag of the nation recipient carried aboard the
> mission. " (Collect Space)
>
> But rocks that were delivered Nov./69 ; *as personal gifts*   were not
> "dust" of 0.05 grams, or were "encased in Lucite." And NASA has never said
> of where (which sample) was taken those part. (They can't do that, they  not
>  hold even a small amount of these samples.) These rocks are truly unique.
>
> But NASA has not forgotten that Moon rocks were given away without being
> properly studied and classified, and in 1998 launched "Operation Lunar
> Eclipse" is supposed to recover  Rocks Lunar;  but which? Those what gave no
> study or classification, or "Dust" of 0.05 grams sufficiently studied and
> classified and which still has a good amount? (The Chondrite marked with the
> # 70017)
>
> {At this point in history should remember the following about the 70.
>   I will not go into detail about those events, but remember that then the
> U.S. supported by 40 other countries were fighting the war
> Vietnam and was looking to consolidate and look for more international
> support for which organized the (Presidential Good-will tour "Giant Leap
> Apollo 11") in which as a personal gift given to some leaders of "friendly
> countries" samples of the rocks broughtthe Moon.}
>
> The scientific and technological development was ... the 70's.
> 41 years ago the scientific community did not have the instruments that
> account today.Even the use of electron microscopes was not yet widespread.
>
> We did not have Internet.
>
> I imagine that in some cases, as occurred with the sample arrived at
> the Universidad
> Nacional de Colombia in Bogota (and Spain) have shown after being reduced to
> dustand 'analyzed and studied "was to end in ... drainage.
>
> On the other hand, as is logical, after the first two landings, which were
> made at an interval of time corto. *July 20/69 , Apollo 11 and Nov.14/69,
> Apollo12*. (Less than 4 months) worldwide, but more in the United States of
> America and especially in NASA, I thought we could go to the moon when we
> wanted.
>
> It is not difficult to understand that in those years the value of RL was
> very relative, evenNASA, which gave them a somewhat careless handling,
> lavish
> gifts and as they were found in the Sea of Tranquility ... although many
> years
> later argue that only give one sample for each country.
>
> The first sounded the alarm that NASA received about the value of these
> rocks was the greed of private collectors who pay large sums for a small
> amount of either of these samples.
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 2:08 PM, <cdtucson at cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Michael, Rafael, List,
>> Is it possible NASA has it's own people (police) enforcing this self
>> proclaimed laws against owning material. Or is their a congressional order
>> making this material illegal after the fact? After is was given away as
>> trophies.
>> This method of self enforcement seems to work well for another Federal
>> agency known as  the IRS.
>> They have their own set of rules and also self enforce their own rules
>> with
>> their own enforcement people without do process of the law.
>> I ask because as I have said before on this list; I have seen and held and
>> actual piece of the moon that was returned from the Apollo missions.
>> A friend brought it over to my home. I did not think to photograph it at
>> the time but it was about a 5 gram fragment encased in resin and it had a
>> presentation plaque right on it that stated it was an actual piece of the
>> moon returned from an Apollo mission. It did not say it was a facsimile of
>> the moon but a real piece.
>> This was given to one of the bosses at one of the aerospace companies that
>> built the ships for the missions. He has since passed away but, retired
>> from
>> Raytheon right here in Tucson and it was shown to me by his grandson.
>> Out of fear from this story surfacing a couple of years ago he  now
>> refuses
>> to show it to me again until this is cleared up. He too has not been able
>> to
>> find any written evidence that NASA has the legal right to confiscate this
>> material.
>> If memory serves me correctly, The past article stated that this material
>> was only on loan to these lucky recipients but, it is to be returned upon
>> their death. The piece I saw did not say that it was on loan anywhere on
>> the
>> [piece itself.
>> So, again, my question is. Do these NASA folks or congress actually have
>> any of this ownership business in writing any where we could see it?????
>> Carl
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
>> Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote".
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---- Michael Gilmer <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi Rafael,
>> >
>> > I do not know for certain that owning Apollo moon dust is illegal.  In
>> > fact, I think samples such as Florian's tape specimens are or should
>> > be legal.  Up until recently, I just assumed that they were.  The fact
>> > that law enforcement has stepped in and is actively pursuing these
>> > samples at least gives the impression that law enforcement thinks it
>> > is illegal.
>> >
>> > I am not an attorney, nor have I worked for NASA or government.  But,
>> > it seems to be commonly-accepted wisdom that owning NASA-sourced
>> > samples is a no-no.  When the US government handed out "moon rocks" to
>> > other governments, some of these eventually found their way onto the
>> > private market.  There was at least one publicized case where the
>> > sample was confiscated and returned.
>> >
>> > So whether it is legal or not, the current modus-operandi of law
>> > enforcement is to harass and prosecute owners of such samples as soon
>> > as they are discovered.
>> >
>> > In the case where a NASA intern stole a sample from JSC, he was
>> > prosecuted and rightfully so.  But, I do not agree with people being
>> > harassed or arrested for trading tiny pieces of tape with a milligram
>> > of dust on them - that is silly and a waste of taxpayer money.
>> >
>> > You won't get any argument from me about that.  :)
>> >
>> > Law-enforcement is not infallible and the make mistakes all the time.
>> > Just because someone is arrested for something, doesn't mean it is
>> > illegal.  But, the fact that people are being harassed for this now,
>> > would make me think twice about trading in this material until the
>> > legal questions are resolved.
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> >
>> > MikeG
>> >
>> > PS - nobody is going to lose this debate, because in my case, you are
>> > preaching to the choir!  :)
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Meteorites & Amber (Michael Gilmer)
>> >
>> > Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
>> > Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my
>> > News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
>> > Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
>> > EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
>> >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> > "> I ask to Michael Gilbert (Galactic Stone), can you tell me exactly
>> *(Date)*
>> > > *which*  law prohibits individuals to have samples of lunar rocks
>> brought by
>> > > NASA."
>> >
>> > This is something I would like to know as well, and if anyone can
>> > answer this definitively, I am anxious to hear it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 6/25/11, Rafael Navarro <rafael.navarro7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > Well ,Michael Blood you can not talk about the speck in your brother's
>> eye,
>> > > when you do not see the beam in yours, (the eyes not see to inward).
>> > > I had the suspicion that NASA gave lunar rock samples  (Apollo 11)
>> without
>> > > having studied, hize a research about it and wanted to share my
>> findings
>> > > with members of Met-list, but the editors of the  list, censored my
>> posts
>> > >  by be suspect   and out of place.
>> > > *Definitely, the ignorance is bold.*
>> > > I ask to Michael Gilbert (Galactic Stone), can you tell me exactly
>> *(Date)*
>> > > *which*  law prohibits individuals to have samples of lunar rocks
>> brought by
>> > > NASA.
>> > > Or you only repeat those words because you've heard to someone say it?
>> > > Also, you believe that among all the samples collected on the moon
>> > > only
>> > > arrived two microscopic meteorites?
>> > > You believe everything what others say?
>> > > You know something about it, or also repeat this like a parrot ?
>> > > *Yes in truth, It is terrifying! They are EVERYWHERE!*
>> > > *
>> > > *
>> > > Rafael Navarro
>> > >
>> > > *PD : *And do not worry about answering;I know that you will  do not.
>> > > I suspect that you are smart enough not to continue a discussion that
>> you
>> > > are not sure of winning.
>> > > *
>> > > *
>> > > *
>> > > *
>> > >
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