[meteorite-list] Illinois, Indiana, Ohio glacial deposits

From: Norm Lehrman <nlehrman_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 22:27:02 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <766793.20004.qm_at_web81004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Count,?

Muonionalusta is actually a good illustration regarding the potential effects of
glaciation:?

?"--- the Muonionalusta meteorites have endured thousands of years' worth
of?glaciations and melting periods. As a result, thawing ice sheets have
migrated the meteorites miles from their original impact site, making
Muonionalusta among the largest and most challenging strewn fields on the
planet."? (quoted from the Meteorite Men episode description).?


I don't have any personal knowledge of the Muonionalusta research, but the
suggestion inherint in the last part of the quote is that glacial effects have
dispersed, enlarged, and confused the inferred original distribution pattern.

Which is my general point:? more often than not, glacial phenomena work against
the meteorite hunter.?


Without the slightest doubt, meteorites fell on the continental ice sheets, were
variously transported, and were ultimately deposited.? This, however, does not
make glacial deposits any more prospective for meteorites than your back yard.?
In fact, if you find one in your back yard, you will be well on your way to
finding more.? But if you find one in glacial till, your chances of expanding
that find into multiple finds is greatly reduced, not enhanced.

Cheers,
Norm
www.tektitesource.com




?


----- Original Message ----
From: Count Deiro <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
To: Norm Lehrman <nlehrman at nvbell.net>; Dave Myers <whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com>
Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Fri, June 10, 2011 6:31:30 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Illinois, Indiana, Ohio glacial deposits

Hello Norm, List,

Considering the exposition on "Meteorite Men" of the Muonionalusta strewn field
and in particular the claims by the Swedish hunter that the meteorites were
brought to the area by glaciers, could you comment?

Best to all,

Count Deiro
IMCA 3536
-----Original Message-----
>From: Norm Lehrman <nlehrman at nvbell.net>
>Sent: Jun 10, 2011 6:08 AM
>To: Dave Myers <whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com>
>Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Illinois, Indiana, Ohio glacial deposits
>
>All,
>
>I fear this thread may be counter-productive for any that are just getting
>started in the search for meteorites.? The glacier angle is, in this case, thin

>ice.? First, Antarctica is a very special case:? in general glacial moraines are
>
>an absolutely horrible place to look.? I'm with Mike.? If you've got genuine
>meteorites, they probably have nothing at all to do with the moraine deposits.?

>Second, I'm also with Anne: the starting place here is to confirm the ID.? This

>is one of those stories with "to good to be true" overtones.
>
>But back to moraines. As a lifelong exploration geologist, I spent many years
>living on the terminal moraines and outwash gravels of the Cordilleran ice sheet
>
>(in NE WA).? Moraines are vast accumulations of rock, precisely what a meteorite
>
>hunter doesn't want.? Nininger's pioneering success in the recovery of
>meteorites was a direct result?of going places where there shouldn't be any
>rocks.?The sand?seas of the Sahara, same thing. ?The dry lakebeds of the Great
>Basin continue that tradition.? And so does Antarctica.?
>
>
>The latter, of course, is where the confusion arises.? Glaciers are part of the

>story for the Antarctic meteorites, but only part.? Starting at the simple end,

>Antarctica is a vast expanse of white and blue where the nearest bedrock is
>often 3000 m straight down.? Rocks are easy to spot, and most that are there
>fell from the sky.? On a snowmobile you can cover a lot of ground fast and not
>miss much.? The driest air on earth (much dryer than that of hot deserts) adds
>to the story by lengthening meteorite shelf-life.? Then there are the glaciers.
>
>Mainly, the ice flows to the coast and the meteorites sail away in their ice
>rafts until they are dumped unceremoniously into the depths of the ocean.?
>However, where the flowing?ice encounters mountains, like the Transantarctic
>range, it stalls, to be slowly eaten away by katabatic winds descending from the
>
>high country.? More ice flows in to replace that lost, and with time, all of the
>
>entrained rocks accumulate in a relatively compact stranding zone.
>
>The terminal moraines of the North American ice sheets were quite different.?
>They flowed into warmer climes, melted, thinned and dumped their contents like
>dirty plowed snowpiles in the spring.? They advanced and retreated.? Meltwaters

>reworked the lot.? The ice was both a bulldozer and?upside-down conveyor belt.?

>Certainly, meteorites fell onto the surface of the ice, as they do on all the
>world, but in this case the glaciers provided vast dilution, not concentration.
>
>Of course you could find a meteorite in glacial deposits, but the dilution
>effects make the search much more difficult.
>
>So advice to would-be searchers: by all means do search wherever you can, but if
>
>you want to increase your odds of success, don't head for the moraines of the
>great continental ice sheets.? Further, you don't need to run out and buy a
>metal detector, expensive or otherwise. Life is too short to do that anywhere
>but a strewn field. You need to cover ground to up the odds.? Go where there are
>
>no rocks and use your eyes, by far the best tool available for routine cold
>searches
>
>Cheers,
>Norm (still on the far side of the globe)
>www.tektitesource.com
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Dave Myers <whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com>
>To: meteoriteguy.com <mike at meteoriteguy.com>
>Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>;
>
>tracy latimer <daistiho at hotmail.com>
>Sent: Fri, June 10, 2011 5:07:57 AM
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Illinois, Indiana, Ohio glacial deposits
>
>Hi Mike you may be right.
>
>But the two chondrites are so different, I do not think there from the same
>fall. But they both could be from different falls??
>
>
>And when you look at the glacier map?I posted with all the iron finds in south
>west ohio, non of them are paired?
>
>
>just my thoughts.
>
>Thanks again
>
>Dave Myers
>
>
>
>
>
>?
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: meteoriteguy.com <mike at meteoriteguy.com>
>To: Dave Myers <whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com>
>Cc: tracy latimer <daistiho at hotmail.com>; "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com"

><meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>Sent: Thu, June 9, 2011 9:29:27 PM
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Illinois, Indiana, Ohio glacial deposits
>
>Guys,
>It is very unlikely that these
>Chondrites are related to the glaciation. Just appears to be a strewnfield like

>any other.
>
>Michael Farmer
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Jun 9, 2011, at 6:26 PM, Dave Myers <whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Tracy
>>
>> All the green areas on the map are "high glaicer morians" It does not show the
>
>
>
>> smaller ones in Butler county and other countys.
>>
>> There is a farm on the Butler-Hamilton county line most of it in Hamilton
>> county, Has a perfect out line "u" shaped of a morian on that farm.
>>
>> I want to hunt that really bad.
>>
>> Will ask next them next year.
>>
>>
>> Dave Myers
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: tracy latimer <daistiho at hotmail.com>
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Sent: Thu, June 9, 2011 9:16:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Illinois, Indiana, Ohio glacial deposits
>>
>>
>> That was my thought as well.? There seem to be parallels here between the
>> Muonionlusta field, which has been relocated by glacier, and the stones you are
>>
>>
>>
>> finding.? Are they in terminal moraines, or individuals in fields?? There is a
>
>
>
>> reason why Moraine, OH was named that!
>>
>> Best!
>> Tracy Latimer
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> From: mikestang at gmail.com
>>> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 15:31:26 -0700
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Illinois, Indiana, Ohio glacial deposits
>>>
>>> Maybe it would be appropriate to bring out some larger coils, like are
>>> commonly used in the Muonionalusta field, to look for deeper stones?
>>>
>>> -Michael in so. Cal.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 11:11 AM, E.P. Grondine wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi everyone -
>>>>
>>>> Well, the meteorites won't be pristine, with some 13,000 years of weathering,
>>
>>
>>
>>> but then -
>>>>
>>>> Who'd have thought that the mid center of the US would have had its own
>>> meteorite transport system, one paralleling that in Antarctica in some ways?
>>>>
>>>> Dave, thanks for sharing.
>>>>
>>>> E.P.
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
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Received on Sat 11 Jun 2011 01:27:02 AM PDT