[meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite issuffering

From: al mitt <almitt_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 06:33:27 -0400
Message-ID: <9869AAF65BA04502A904CF3DEB5B1E0B_at_StarmanPC>

Hi Gary and all,

I agree Gary with all of what you say. If someone has the choice of buying
from a dealer at a table, or off a website where they have the specimen and
shipping is a couple of days away, why would they search or buy from
wholesalers/retailers from the NWA region? Also a single purchase would have
to be classified if the Moroccan's haven't done this creating more expense,
if it isn't a fall that hasn't been classed yet.

If you don't know that supplier/dealer would you be willing to take a risk
with your funds?? Moroccan dealers won't be able to sell to many of my
customers because they trust me and know what I am offering.
Sorry but most dealers have the customers to sell to and not lone sales from
the desert sands. Best!

--AL Mitterling
Mitterling Meteorites


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Fujihara" <fujmon at mac.com>
To: "MeteorList" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite
issuffering


This is not entirely true. First of all retail sales from Morocco to the US
or European markets do not make sense for most collectors who only look to
buy one stone from a particular fall or find. Because Morocco has no paypal
or easy method of funds transfer, a buyer must either wire funds from one's
bank to the seller's bank or use Western Union - both incur high fees that
drive the cost of the single item purchase substantially higher. Add to
that the fact that Chronopost is not dependable or secure, meteorites are
usually shipped by Fedex or UPS courier service, again at a premium price,
which drives the up end cost of the meteorite. Its only viable if buying in
bulk quantities.

So, I do not believe direct marketing of meteorites from Moroccan dealers to
retail buyers (collectors) are a primary cause of increased prices that we
are seeing in the marketplace.

gary
(sorry if this gets posted more than once, third time I'm trying to get this
posted)

On Jun 5, 2011, at 2:55 PM, Count Deiro wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Gentlemen and Ladies...I doubt that the increase in price American and
> European dealers are being asked to pay has anything to do with the nomads
> developing a heightened sense of value, or an increased skill in
> bargaining....or a paucity of meteorites. I believe what has happened to
> cause the increase in price and the lack of availabilty in your dealings
> with North West African wholesalers is that they have discovered that they
> can market directly to retail buyers all over the world with a stroke of a
> finger.. The Internet makes it easy and cheap for them to find collectors
> and sell retail. The result is that they no longer need to sell material,
> especially choice items, at wholesale to you retail dealers.
>
> As all who know me are aware, I am a collector/buyer and have never sold a
> meteorite. I hadn't bought my first half dozen meteorites online before I
> was contacted directly by "wholesale" dealers out of Africa wishing to
> sell me specimens. I received several offers in the past couple of days..
>
> Folks, The wholesalers have become retailers by just cutting out you, the
> middlemen. The nomads are, and have always been, the real wholesalers. The
> Moroccon's just took awhile to smarten up and learn to use the technology.
>
> Best to all,
>
> Count Deiro
> IMCA 3536
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bill kies <parkforestmet at hotmail.com>
>> Sent: Jun 5, 2011 5:13 PM
>> To: cdtucson at cox.net
>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is
>> suffering
>>
>>
>> Carl, your analogy is so flawed it isn't worth debate. When profits
>> dwindle it's time to find another business. Welcome to free trade and
>> capitalism Aziz.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 19:43:16 -0400
>>> From: cdtucson at cox.net
>>> To: parkforestmet at hotmail.com; azizhabibi at yahoo.com
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re : Re : Moroccan business meteorite is
>>> suffering
>>> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>
>>> Bill,
>>> Aziz's worries are very real here.
>>> Yes, in an ideal world you are correct. But,
>>> Aziz and others make their living buying and selling meteorites. No. you
>>> cannot eat them but, the same can be said about oil and energy in
>>> general.
>>> These dealers are no better off than oil investors. When hedge funds or
>>> anyone else corners a market as they have. The market gets controlled by
>>> them and if you want to stay in business you have to pay the price.
>>> Remember these hedge funds types have a lot of money. They CAN afford to
>>> sit on the material until a willing buyer comes along. It is a lose ,
>>> lose situation.
>>> Market manipulation is very real and until outlawed it will continue to
>>> put undue pressure on the smaller dealers like Aziz and others. They
>>> must either pay the asking price or go out of business. Very sad but
>>> true. So, Aziz must pay the price and hope he can convince others to pay
>>> his new and inflated asking price. In America the opposite is happening
>>> with meteorites. EBay has forced the prices down. So, if you make a
>>> living with eBay you must adjust . If you make a living with Nomads you
>>> must adjust.
>>> Carl
>>> --
>>>
>>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
>>> Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote".?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---- bill kies wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Exactly. When the seller demands more than the buyer is willing to pay,
>>>> the seller either adjusts his prices or keeps his merchandise. Supply
>>>> and demand is more applicable to necessities than extravagances. None
>>>> of us can eat meteorites, well, most of us can't or won't.
>>>>
>>>> Extremely rare material is an exception I suppose.
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>> Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 15:08:34 -0700
>>>>> From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com
>>>>> Subject: Re : [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is
>>>>> suffering
>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> CC: parkforestmet at hotmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> bill
>>>>> this is not a good theories, at all,
>>>>>
>>>>> offer and demand make the rules of prices in the market , there is an
>>>>> equation
>>>>> of equilibre between offer and demand , and also rarity,
>>>>>
>>>>> plusieurs facteurs sont responsable de l'equation des prix , offre
>>>>> demande ,
>>>>> rarete , type luxe ou nessecite, besoin anssi de suite,
>>>>>
>>>>> a plus
>>>>>
>>>>> aziz h
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Message d'origine ----
>>>>> De : bill kies
>>>>> ? : azizhabibi at yahoo.com
>>>>> Cc : meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Envoy? le : Dim 5 juin 2011, 23h 20min 38s
>>>>> Objet : RE: [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is
>>>>> suffering
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's how markets evolve. When suppliers realize the fact that their
>>>>> unrealistic prices aren't getting them anywhere, they'll loosen up.
>>>>> It's the
>>>>> same everywhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 07:34:29 -0700
>>>>>> From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com
>>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> CC: almitt at kconline.com
>>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Re : Moroccan business meteorite is
>>>>>> suffering
>>>>>>
>>>>>> al
>>>>>>
>>>>>> if the meteorite are intersting or unique or new unpaired material we
>>>>>> pay a
>>>>>> good
>>>>>> price , we gamble this is the proper term in hope to find planetary
>>>>>> meteorite:
>>>>>> we are lately more gambling than buying meteorite or earth rock that
>>>>>> look like
>>>>>> meteorite,we call those suspecious meteorite and many martian and
>>>>>> lunar come
>>>>>> from those,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> but to the fact that some old fall are in sales now for more than
>>>>>> what they
>>>>>> were when found this is also true;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> most of the nomade keep there stone because we can't pay the price
>>>>>> they are
>>>>>> asking,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> take care
>>>>>>
>>>>>> aziz h
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The question is will dealers pay more if they can't make any money on
>>>>>> specimens?
>>>>>> Seems like you can buy old falls for as much or less than the new
>>>>>> stuff coming
>>>>>> out of the Sahara. Unless it is something like lunar, martain or
>>>>>> ultra rare
>>>>>> material specimens. Best!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --AL Mitterling
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "habibi abdelaziz"
>>>>>> To: "meteorite list"
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 8:22 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Moroccan business meteorite is suffering
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hello all
>>>>>>> price are high very high, , there is no more meteorite found like
>>>>>>> old time;
>>>>>>> you want to have meteorite in sahara desert you have to pay more ;
>>>>>>> and more
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> so simpley and so sadly ;
>>>>>>> the field are drying , so simple
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> aziz h
>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
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Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html
(808) 640-9161

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Received on Mon 06 Jun 2011 06:33:27 AM PDT