[meteorite-list] meteorite-list discussion on crater like features in central New Mexico: Rich Murray 2011.01.07

From: Rich Murray <rmforall_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 01:21:04 -0700
Message-ID: <AANLkTinnF1E0+PjZEZtN==5WxSwPkzjB1HozC+EkJ2ja_at_mail.gmail.com>

meteorite-list discussion on crater like features in central New
Mexico: Rich Murray 2011.01.07

Abe Guenther was initially inspired by Dennis Cox:
http://craterhunter.wordpress.com/2010/11/22/footprints-of-a-fragmented-comet/

Paul Heinrich gives three more crater field locations south of the
Vaughn area in New Mexico -- any evidence indicating impact origin?

He gives at the end of this collection of posts many links for
abstracts and papers that lay out the details of plausible scenarios
for non-impact formation.

Note: 33.998533 -105.414857 1.864 km el low,
well defined shallow 80 m size crater


8 m white impact crater 1.3 m deep, SE corner of the Lincoln quad,
near Glencoe, NM: Steven J. Skotnicki: Paul Heinrich: Rich Murray
2011.01.06

may be Skotnicki small impact crater:

33.382169 -105.431869 40 m white apron 2.026 km el,
by roads Fs 443 amd Fs 443B,
2.5 km SSE of Glencoe, New Mexico

also note:

33.419317 -105.438705 1.766 km el .2X.4 km size
very white, just N of IS 70 and E of CR E009,
1 km E of Glencoe

Steven J. Skotnicki "Qp" Playa deposits
33.383715 -105.417287 .3x.15 km size
1.996 km el low

some Steven J. Skotnicki "Qp" Playa deposits
33.378028 -105.402504
1.975 km el low
the oval one is .2X.1 km size

white mine
33.432643 -105.482465 1.810 km el low,
.4x.4 km size right triangle,
just SE of CR E009,
3.5 km NW of Glencoe

white grey quarry
33.391140 -105.487088 1.797 km el low,
.3X.2 km size,
just N of IS 70,
4 km SSW of Glencoe

unique erratic 3 m rock, complex mixed composition, and many possibly
related airburst features W of Vaughn, New Mexico: Dennis Cox: Rich Murray
2010.11.26
http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2010_11_01_archive.htm
Friday, November 26, 2010
[ at end of each long page, click on Older Posts ]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/78
[you may have to Copy and Paste URLs into your browser]


http://geoinfo.nmt.edu/publications/maps/geologic/ofgm/downloads/188/Lincoln_Report.pdf

Preliminary Geologic Map of the Lincoln Quadrangle,
Lincoln County, New Mexico
By
Steven J. Skotnicki
Lawrence Geoservices, 2321 Elizabeth St NE, Albuquerque, NM, 87112
Arizona State University, Department of Geological Sciences, P.O. Box
871404, Tempe, Arizona 85287-1404
May, 2009
New Mexico Bureau of Geology and Mineral Resources
Open-file Digital Geologic Map OF-GM 188
Scale 1:24,000

New Mexico Bureau of Geology and Mineral Resources
801 Leroy Place, Socorro, New Mexico, 87801-4796
[505] 835-5490
http://geoinfo.nmt.edu
The views and conclusions contained in this document are those of the
author and should not be interpreted as necessarily representing the
official policies, either expressed or implied, of the U.S. Government
or the State of New Mexico.

"POSSIBLE IMPACT CRATER

In the southeast corner of the Lincoln quadrangle, within the canyon
immediately east of Gonzales Canyon, is a small circular depression
that looks very much like an impact crater.
The depression is nearly circular, and bowl-shaped, is 23 feet across
and about 4 feet deep in the center (Photos 65 and 66).
Its edges are sharp and nearly vertical and are surrounded by a low
mound of material forming an apron arround the north half of the bowl.
The depression is surrounded by silty Quaternary alluvial deposits in
all directions, but the mound is composed of broken and shattered
pieces of red and yellow siltstone, and minor gray limestone, all of
which represent the Yeso Formation.
The nearest exposures of Yeso Formation are a couple hundred feet to
the south, and there is no Yeso Formation exposed in the depression
itself.
In this respect the low mound of material around the northern rim
resembles material ejected from the crater during the impact of a
meteor--?impact ejecta?.
The impact itself would have excavated material from beneath the
crater and, therefore, if this was an impact, the Yeso Formation is
likely very close to the surface (not much greater than about 4 feet
below the surface).
Impact craters are commonly nearly circular, even when the impacting
body hits the surface at an angle.
The presence of possible impact ejecta only on the north side,
however, suggests that the meteor may have approached from the south.
An alternative explanation is that this is a man-made crater created
by some type of explosive.
There is no other evidence for or against this possibility.
Samples of consolidated siltstone from the mound were sent to a laboratory.
If shocked quartz is present then the impact hypothesis is more reasonable.
The age of the feature is not known, but can be constrained.
The sharp vertical walls in Quaternary silt suggest it is relatively young.
A full-size juniper and a 7-foot-tall pi?on are growing on the mound
on the north side, so the feature is older than a few years.
There is a very faint old dirt road visible a few hundred meters to
the east where it passes through an old wood and barbedwire gate.
The crater appears to overlap part of this old road, and if so it is
younger that about 150 years (?).
Ruben Chavez, who has lived near the mouth of the canyon all of his
life, said the crater has been there for at least ten years."

Paul Heinrich post 2011.01.05:

Abe wrote in ?Impact Crater in New Mexico? at
http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2011-January/072191.html ;

?How about these 34? 0'51.00" N 105? 8'41.46" W?
I notice a huge scatter of craters. Is much known
about these or what they are? There are a lot of
these ancient scars for several miles around. If
they aren't impact craters it would be interesting
to know what they are.?

The features that are located at and near 34? 0'51.00"
N 105? 8'41.46" W lie within the
S1/2 of the SE1/4, of Section 27 and the
N1/2 of the NE 1/2 of Section 34 of T. 3S., R. 17E.
within Lincoln County, New Mexico.
According to Scholle, P. A. (2003), this area is underlain
by the San Andres Formation, which is described as
?Limestone and dolomite with minor shale.?

[ Paul Heinrich the next day gives correction:
"By the way the correct location for Guenther?s depressions is
S1/2 of the SE1/4, of Section 27 and the
N1/2 of the NE 1/4 of Section 34 of T. 3S., R. 17E.
I mistakenly wrote ?NE 1/2? instead of NE1/4? ]

Judging from what can be seen in the images, the
depressions in this area are natural features. Their
morphology exhibits all the characteristics of typical
sinkholes developed in the local limestone and
dolomite bedrock. Unfortunately, I cannot at this
time find anything specific about the geology of
this part of Lincoln County, New Mexico.

If a person wants to look for features to investigate
as possible impact craters, they can check out the
potential impact crater that Skotnicki (2009)
reported finding within the Lincoln 7.5 quadrangle,
Lincoln County, New Mexico.

References;

Scholle, P. A., 2003, Geologic Map of New Mexico.
scale 1:500,000, New Mexico Bureau of Geology
and Mineral Resources, Socorro, New Mexico.

Skotnicki , S. J., 2009, Preliminary Geologic Map
of the Lincoln Quadrangle, Lincoln County, New
Mexico. scale: 1:24,000. Open-file Digital Geologic
Map OF-GM 188. New Mexico Bureau of Geology
and Mineral Resources, Socorro, New Mexico.
http://geoinfo.nmt.edu/publications/maps/geologic/ofgm/details.cfml?Volume=188
Map at http://geoinfo.nmt.edu/publications/maps/geologic/ofgm/downloads/188/Lincoln_v1p-00.pdf
Text at http://geoinfo.nmt.edu/publications/maps/geologic/ofgm/downloads/188/Lincoln_Report.pdf

Yours, Paul H.
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[meteorite-list] Impact Crater in New Mexico ? Part 2 Lincoln County
Revisited
Inbox
                                                
Reply from Paul H. <oxytropidoceras at cox.net>
to "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
date Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 7:36 AM
subject [meteorite-list] Impact Crater in New Mexico ? Part 2 Lincoln
County Revisited
mailing list meteorite-list.meteoritecentral.com 7:36 AM (15 hours ago)

In Impact Crater in New Mexico ? Part 2 Lincoln County at
http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2011-January/072230.html
Rob, about the features in
34? 0' 51.00" N 105? 8' 41.46" W
( 34.0142? N 105.1448? W )
commented,

?Looking at these features in Google Earth, they appear
to be capped limestone structures rather than depressions.
Has anyone on the discussion list actually been there??

I consulted the USGS topographic map and the 10-m DEM
for the Cowboy Mesa SW 7.5 minute quadrangle. They
both show that these features are depressions and that
they are certainly not limestone capped hills. Depending
on how a person?s brain interprets the shadows, images
on two-dimensional aerial photographs can appear to be
either depressions or hills. Because of this quirk of how
the brain works, it is useful to consult either topographic
maps, digital elevations models (DEMs), or stereo pairs
of aerial images when making interpretations.

Similar depressions can be seen elsewhere in the
regions in aerial photos and topographic maps.
Similar depressions occur in Sections 29 and 28 of
T. 4S., R. 17E. at
33.936? N 105.179? W
This is about 9 km south-westsouth of Guenther?s depressions.

Even more depressions can be seen
about 32 km to the west ? west-southwest in Sections
1, 2, 12, 20, 21, 22, 33, 34, and others of T. 4S., R. 14E.

Examples of other similar depression can be found at
33.988? N 105.435? W and
33.946? N 105.479 W

They all have the typical morphology of sinkholes. The typical
morphology of sinkholes as seen in topographic maps
is discussed by Miller and Westerback (1989).

By the way the correct location for Guenther?s depressions
is S1/2 of the SE1/4, of Section 27 and the N1/2 of the
NE 1/4 of Section 34 of T. 3S., R. 17E.
I mistakenly wrote ?NE 1/2? instead of NE1/4?.


These posts are in reference to ?Impact Crater in New Mexico? at
http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2011-January/072191.html
and ?Impact Crater in New Mexico ? Part 2 Lincoln County?
http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2011-January/072228.html

Reference Cited,

Miller, V. C., and M. E. Westerback, . Merrill Publishing Company,
Columbus, Ohio. 416 pp. ISBN-13: 978-0675209199

Yours,

Paul Heinrich
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Reply
Guenther to Paul, meteorite-list
show details 9:57 AM (13 hours ago)

Thanks Paul for your in depth explanation of the land formations and I
agree with the findings.
I found out where I originally read that they were meteorite craters here:
http://craterhunter.wordpress.com/2010/11/22/footprints-of-a-fragmented-comet/

Much of the information on that site appears to be correct but this
one didn't seem right to me.
This is why I appreciate this newsgroup and people like you.
I can always be assured of good feedback and intelligent arguments.
This really helps a newbie like me.

Best Regards, Abe Guenther

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[meteorite-list] Impact Crater in New Mexico ? Part 1 Lea County
Inbox

Paul H. to meteorite-list
Jan 5
About an area in Lea County, New Mexico, Abe wrote:

?I plan to go on another meteorite hunting trip to New Mexico
soon before the Tucson show. Would you guys think that this
is an impact crater? 32?21'54.39" N 103?23'47.50" W.
I remember reading about it on a site but it appears that there
are just too many craters in the area to all be impact craters.
If they aren?t impact craters what would be the possibility
they are ancient ponds for wildlife? I would imagine that as
West Texas and New Mexico dried up, any remaining wet
ground would become extremely populated with wild life
and over centuries these locations would become deep ponds.?


These are playa lakes.
They are neither impact craters nor related any type of impact processes.
Some of these playa lakes have been in existence throughout the Pleistocene.
However, there is one known exception to how playa lakes typically
form -- it is the playa lake that occupied the Odessa impact crater.

About playa Lakes, Holliday et al. (1996) states:

?These lithostratigraphic and chronostratigraphic relationships show
that some basins have a prolonged history as depressions, persisting
in more or less the same location as the High Plains surface aggraded
by eolian addition (Blackwater Draw Formation) throughout the
Pleistocene.
Sizes of the basins varied through time as they were encroached upon
by the Blackwater Draw Formation, enlarged by fluvial, lake margin,
and eolian erosion, were filled and reexposed, or were buried.
Some basins are newly formed on the High Plains surface and have no
apparent predecessors.?

About the origin of playa basins, Gustavson et al. (1995a) wrote:

?The initial formation of playa basins involved many processes but
most likely started with collection of runoff in small, irregular
topographic depressions on the High Plains.
Initial depressions may have resulted from surface drainage,
dissolution of the Caprock calcrete, subsidence caused by salt
dissolution, differential compaction, animal wallows, or blowouts
where vegetation was missing.
Ponded runoff killed vegetation or inhibited plant growth and allowed
deflation to remove some of the surface sediment when the pond dried
out.
As the initial small basin expanded, fluvial erosion and lacustrine
sedimentation became more important.
Centripetal drainage enlarged the basin by eroding the basin margin
and carrying sediment to the basin floor.
Periodic flooding continued to keep the center of the playa basin
relatively clear of vegetation.
Wind deflated dry sediment from the playa center.
Deflation may have been accelerated after large herds of bison
pulverized dried surface soils and carried small amounts of sediment
out of the basin on their hooves.
Sediments deflated from these basins were carried downwind.?

Some Publications About Playa Lakes

Gustavson, T. C., V. T. Holliday, and S, D. Hovorka, 1995a
Development of Playa Basins, Southern High Plains, Texas
and New Mexico. In Proceedings of the Playa Basin
Symposium, edited by L.V. Urban and A.W. Wyatt, pp. 5-14.
Texas Tech University, Water Resources Center, Lubbock.

Gustavson, T. C., V. T. Holliday, and S. D. Hovorka, 1995b
Origin and Development of Playa Basins, Sources of
Recharge to the Ogallala Aquifer, Southern High Plains,
Texas and New Mexico. The University of Texas at Austin,
Bureau of Economic Geology Report of Investigation 229.

Holliday, V. T., T. C. Gustavson, and S. D. Hovorka, 1996,
Stratigraphy and Geochronology of Playa Fills on the
Southern High Plains. Geological Society of America
Bulletin. vol. 108, no. 8, pp. 953-965.
Abstract at http://gsabulletin.gsapubs.org/content/108/8/953
short PDF file at
http://www.argonaut.arizona.edu/articles/holliday_etal1996.pdf
and http://www.argonaut.arizona.edu/holliday.htm

Hovorka, S.D., 1997, Quaternary evolution of ephemeral playa
lakes on the Southern High Plains of Texas, USA: cyclic
variation in lake level recorded in sediments. Journal of
Paleolimnology. vol. 17, pp. 131?146.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/u20316917821568q/

Osterkamp, W. R. and W. W. Wood, 1987, Playa-lake basins
on the Southern High Plains of Texas and New Mexico:
Part I. Hydrologic, geomorphic, and geologic evidence for
their development. Geological Society of America Bulletin.
vol. 99, no.2, pp. 215-223.
http://bulletin.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/99/2/215

Wood, W. W., and W. R. Osterkamp, 1987, Playa-lake basins
on the Southern High Plains of Texas and New Mexico: Part II.
A hydrologic model and mass-balance arguments for their
development. Geological Society of America Bulletin.
vol. 99, no.2, pp. 224-230.
http://bulletin.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/99/2/224

Playa lakes are an extremely important to local wildlife as
the primary wetlands in this part of the southern High Plains
as discussed in:

Haukosa, D. A., and L. M. Smith, 1994, The importance of
playa wetlands to biodiversity of the Southern High Plains.
Landscape and Urban Planning. vol. 28, pp. 83-98.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/0169-2046(94)90046-9

Smith, L. M., 2003, Playas of the Great Plains. University of
Texas Press, Austin, Texas. 275 pp. ISBN: 978-0-292-70177-9
http://www.utexas.edu/utpress/books/smipla.html
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1781&context=greatplainsresearch

Yours, Paul H.
Received on Fri 07 Jan 2011 03:21:04 AM PST