[meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 .... SillimanandWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE????

From: Shawn Alan <photophlow_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 21:49:14 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <672408.56426.qm_at_web35405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello Mike and Listers

Mike wrote....

"Dr. Isaac Bronson and Dr. Horace Holley
conducted the first investigation of Weston. Bronson then wrote the first
report of the event on December 19, 1807 - two days before Silliman/Kingsley
arrived on-site. This would become the first published report on the Weston
event as it was published in the December 28th edition of the New-York
Commercial Advertiser"

Hands down you can do some research and I have to say I do my fact checking and this had slipped by, well done :) But again the information you got was from 2009 and mine is from 2007 so I guess my material could be dated.

At any rate, if we really want to be technical, someone else beat Bronson and Silliman to the punch for publication about the Weston meteorite fall......

"Immediately following Bronson?s letter, the editor
of the paper inserted two short notices taken from local
newspapers. The first, from Bridgeport, Connecticut, dated
December 24, was titled: ?Terrestrial Comet.? It stated that on
the morning of the 14th a ?Terrestrial Comet? exploded
nearly over the town of Weston, about nine miles from
Bridgeport. It described the comet?s size, brilliance, course,
and explosion, and said the stone appeared to have beendissolved and concreted again, and strongly impregnated with
iron. The notice continued:

We understand that the intention of the learned faculty of
Yale College is extended to this remarkable phenomenon,
and it will yield something new and interesting if pursued
intensively, which we presume it will be. Mr. Edward
King, of London, has published remarks on the falling of
stones from our atmosphere both in antient and modern
times. Mr. King?s enquiry was excited by the remarkable
explosions which took place in Tuscany [Siena], on the
16th of June, 1794.

The second, much shorter, notice came from a paper in
Wardsbridge, Connecticut. Dated December 25, it described
the fireball as an uncommonly large meteor resembling a
fiery-tailed comet. The first of these notices indicates that at
least one local newspaper editor was familiar with Edward
King?s book that had been published eleven years earlier in
England."

(Marvin B46-47 2007, The origins of modern meteorite research)

Now that is some reporting, giving twitter a run for its money back in 1807.

Shawn Alan
IMCA 1633
eBaystore
http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html




--- On Tue, 2/22/11, Mike Bandli <fuzzfoot at comcast.net> wrote:

> From: Mike Bandli <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 .... SillimanandWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE????
> To: "'Shawn Alan'" <photophlow at yahoo.com>, markig at westnet.com
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 6:00 PM
> Shawn Alan wrote:? "I see that
> the first publication of any account of the
> Weston meteorite fall was done on December 29, 1807 by
> Silliman and Kingsley
> sent a preliminary description of the fall phenomena and
> the stones to The
> Connecticut Herald, in New Haven, making the report one of
> the first
> published report on the Weston meteorite fall.( Marvin B47
> 2007, The origins
> of modern meteorite research)..."
>
>
> Actually, this is incorrect. Dr. Isaac Bronson and Dr.
> Horace Holley
> conducted the first investigation of Weston. Bronson then
> wrote the first
> report of the event on December 19, 1807 - two days before
> Silliman/Kingsley
> arrived on-site. This would become the first published
> report on the Weston
> event as it was published in the December 28th edition of
> the New-York
> Commercial Advertiser - a day before Silliman and
> Kingsley's report in the
> Connecticut Herald. So, Bronson holds the title for the
> first report on the
> Weston event. Bronson's report was subsequently reprinted
> in the out-of-town
> paper, the New-York Spectator, on January 2, 1808.
> Interestingly, Bronson
> and Holley's work on Weston has managed to slip through
> many bibliographies.
>
>
> References:
>
> Bronson, I. (1807) Letter to the editor. New-York
> Commercial
> Advertiser, December 28, 1807.
>
> Robson, M. and Pagliaro, F. (2009), Weston: Revised
> position for a
> historically significant meteorite fall. Meteoritics &
> Planetary Science,
> 44: 1343?1354.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mike Bandli
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> Mike Bandli
> Historic Meteorites
> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
> and join us on Facebook:
> www.facebook.com/Meteorites1
> IMCA #5765
> -----------------------------------------------
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]
> On Behalf Of Shawn Alan
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 2:37 PM
> To: markig at westnet.com
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 ....
> SillimanandWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE????
>
> Hi Mark and Listers,
>
> ???Mark I did take a look at your review and
> your stance on Silliman's work
> on the Weston meteorite to say the least is summed up by
> these statements "
> Silliman?s face must be red with
> embarrassment....Silliman?s accomplishments
> in capturing the imagination of the public versus the
> quality of his
> scientific work on the fragments, which was professional
> but certainly not
> exceptional"
>
> ???You go further by saying that Woodhouse
> on the other hand didn?t receive
> enough credit with the Weston meteorite fall. But I find it
> odd that these
> two gentlemen had a rivalry. At one point Woodhouse's work
> on analysis of
> meteorite stones could be summed up to be "loose and not to
> be depended on"
> quoted from the Transactions of the American Philosophical
> Society, which in
> March 1808 Silliman and Kingsley read a memoir to the
> American Philosophical
> Society about the Weston meteorite fall.
>
> Source
> http://books.google.com/books?id=BUsLAAAAIAAJ&lpg=PA285&dq=Philadelphia%20Me
> dical%20Museum%2C%205%2C%202%20(1808)%20woodhouse&pg=PA285#v=onepage&q=Phila
> delphia%20Medical%20Museum,%205,%202%20(1808)%20woodhouse&f=false
>
> ???You have suggested that Woodhouse's role
> could be deemed just as
> important as Sillimans and that Prince did not express that
> in her work. But
> my question is why do you feel that Woodhouses role was
> just as important if
> not even more? I see that the first publication of any
> account of the Weston
> meteorite fall was done on December 29, 1807 by Silliman
> and Kingsley sent a
> preliminary description of the fall phenomena and the
> stones to The
> Connecticut Herald, in New Haven, making the report one of
> the first
> published report on the Weston meteorite fall.( Marvin B47
> 2007, The origins
> of modern meteorite research) A few days later a letter
> written by Bronson a
> merchant describe his observation and was published January
> 2, 1808 in The
> New York Spector.
>
> ???As for publications go Silliman was one
> of the first to do so and not to
> mention his first-hand accounts in the field as opposed to
> Woodhouse lack of
> engagement in the field, and second hand sources. You say
> that Woodhouse
> published his analysis of the Weston meteorite; may I ask
> what the date was
> when he published his findings and where?
>
> ???In January 1808 Silliman's manuscript
> accounts the analysis of the Weston
> fall and at that time Woodhouse's analysis had been
> unpublished and to some
> felt his work to be unsound and loose. In March 1808
> Silliman and Kingsley
> read their memoir of the Weston meteorite fall and analysis
> in front of the
> American Philosophical Society and to further their
> analysis and research
> had numerous excerpts and abstractions published in Europe
> in 1808.
>
> Now I find this statement? from your review to be odd
> which you state....
>
> "Silliman?s Weston study owes a great debt to the
> chemical work of Edward
> Howard and other analysts, such as Vauquelin, Fourcroy
> (1755-1809) and
> Klaproth, as well as to scientist Jean Baptiste Biot
> (1774-1862), who
> interviewed scores of eyewitnesses to the 1803 L?Aigle
> meteorite shower and
> documented their reports"
>
> ???But what is interesting is you failed to
> express that Sillimans and
> Kingsley excerpts and abstractions from the Weston
> meteorite fall were read
> to the Royal Society in London in 1808, and a
> newspaper article on it had been translated into French and
>
> read to the National Institute in Paris before a rapt
> audience
> including Fourcroy, Vauquelin, Berthollet, Laplace,
> Lagrange, and Biot (Brown 1989:236) (Marvin B47 2007, The
> origins of modern
> meteorite research)
>
> ???Its interesting how this comes full
> circle and how student learners from
> instructor and instructor learns from student. I feel that
> the placement of
> Sillimans role in American meteoritic science science can
> be summed up to
> this....
>
> "His scientific work, which was extensive, began with the
> examination in
> 1807 of the meteor that fell near Weston, Conn. He procured
> fragments, of
> which he made a chemical analysis, and he wrote the
> earliest and best
> authenticated account' of the fall of a meteor in America."
>
> ?
> Cited from:? APPLETONS' CYCLOPEDIA OF AMERICAN
> BIOGRAPHY
> VOL V. PICKERING-SUMTER 1888
>
>
> ???On the other hand Mark, Woodhouses role
> is concerned, his reputation as a
> chemist and mineralogist was not high and to some, seen as
> being loose and
> not being dependable with analysis of stones. Now does the
> rivalry lay in
> the lack of evidence that one might present in an argument
> of why Woodhouse
> deserves accreditation or is the rivalry a mere conflict
> between
> student/teacher, a dilemma that presented its self at the
> time of meteoritic
> science was at the for front in America, the race for
> notoriety of the first
> American to have a well-documented account with the first
> American meteorite
> fall, THE WESTON meteorite. I feel that Silliman's role was
> one of the best
> first hand accounts of a meteroite fall/analysis in America
> and Woodhouse
> falling short and seen as loose in his work and not to be
> depended on.
>
>
> Thank you
> Shawn Alan
> IMCA 1633
> eBaystore
> http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shawn Alan" <photophlow at yahoo.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 12:48 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 ....
> Silliman
> andWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE????
>
>
>
> > Hello Listers,
>
> >
>
> > Over the course of a few days I had done some research
> on the Weston
>
> > meteorite fall and read up on Silliman's role and it
> could be summed up to
>
>
> > these few quotes....
>
> >
>
> > "His scientific work, which was extensive, began with
> the examination in
>
> > 1807 of the meteor that fell near Weston, Conn. He
> procured fragments, of
>
> > which he made a chemical analysis, and he wrote the
> earliest and best
>
> > authenticated account' of the fall of a meteor in
> America."
>
> >
>
> > Cited from: APPLETONS' CYCLOPEDIA OF AMERICAN
> BIOGRAPHY
>
> > VOL V. PICKERING-SUMTER 1888
>
> >
>
> > Source
>
> >
> http://books.google.com/books?id=K6koAAAAYAAJ&dq=weston%20meteorite%201807%2
> 0woodhouse&pg=PA528#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
> >
>
> > "SILLIMAN, Benjamin, scientist, was born in North
> Stratford, Conn., Aug.
>
> > 8, 1779 : son of Gold Selleck Silliman (q.v.) and Mary
> Fish (Noyes)
>
> > Silliman. He was graduated at Yale, A.B., 1796, A.M.,
> 1799.... In 1805, he
>
>
> > went abroad to study a year at Edinburgh and to buy
> books and apparatus.
>
> > On his return, he studied the geology of New Haven,
> and in 1807 he
>
> > examined the meteor that fell near Weston, Conn.,
> making a chemical
>
> > analysis of fragments, this report being the first
> scientific account of
>
> > any American meteor."
>
> >
>
> > Cited from: THE TWENTIETH CENTURY BIOGRAPHICAL
> DICTIONARY OF NOTABLE
>
> > AMERICANS I904
>
> >
>
> > And lastly, a quote taken from James Woodhouse
> biography written by Edgar
>
> > Fahs Smith stating Silliman's account of the Weston
> meteorite fall to
>
> > be......
>
> >
>
> > "An elaborate account of this meteor has been
> published by Messrs.
>
> > Silliman and Kingsley, of Yale College, Connecticut."
>
>
> >
>
> > Source
>
> >
> http://books.google.com/books?id=4JMEAAAAYAAJ&dq=weston%20meteorite%201807%2
> 0woodhouse&pg=PA274#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
> >
>
> > But what caught my interest was the dynamic roles that
> played with
>
> > Silliman and Woodhouse and that some believed
> Woodhouse role with the
>
> > Weston meteorite fall to be "loose and not depended
> on". Take a look at
>
> > the link below and start at the top of the page. From
> what I can gather,
>
> > Silliman and Woodhouse seemed to have a rivalry and
> few scholars felt the
>
> > same way about Woodhouse work with the Weston
> meteorite being bad science.
>
>
> >
>
> > Source
>
> >
> http://books.google.com/books?id=BUsLAAAAIAAJ&lpg=PA285&dq=Philadelphia%20Me
> dical%20Museum%2C%205%2C%202%20(1808)%20woodhouse&pg=PA285#v=onepage&q=Phila
> delphia%20Medical%20Museum,%205,%202%20(1808)%20woodhouse&f=false
>
>
> >
>
> > Now from my understanding Silliman and Kingsley
> arrived in Weston December
>
>
> > 21 1807, a week after the Weston meteorite fall.
> During those few days
>
> > Silliman and Kingsley interviewed witnesses and
> acquired fragments from
>
> > various sites in Weston. Here is an excerpt from a
> letter detailing their
>
> > accounts in Weston....
>
> >
>
> > "Yale College, December 26, 1807.
>
> >
>
> > Messrs. Steele, & Co.,
>
> >
>
> > As imperfect and erroneous accounts of the late
> phenomenon at Weston are
>
> > finding their way into the public prints, we take the
> 1U berty of
>
> > enclosing for your paper the result of an
> investigation into the
>
> > circumstances and evidence of the event referred to,
> which we have made on
>
>
> > the ground where it happened. That we may not
> interrupt our narration by
>
> > repeating the observation wherever it is applicable,
> we may remark, once
>
> > for all, that we visited and carefully examined every
> spot where the
>
> > stones had been ascertained to have fallen, and
> several places where they
>
> > had beeu only suspected, without any discovery; that
> we obtained specimens
>
>
> > of every stone; conversed with all the principal
> original witnesses ;
>
> > spent several days in the investigation, and were, at
> the time, the only
>
> > persons who had explored the whole ground.
>
> >
>
> > We are, gentlemen, your obedient servants,
>
> >
>
> > BENJAMIN SILLIMAN.
>
> > JAMES L. KINGSLEY.
>
> >
>
> > Cited from: THE AMERICAN REGISTER OR GENERAL
> REPOSITORY OF
>
> > HISTORY, POLITICS, AND SCIENCE. PART II FOR 1807.
>
> >
>
> > Source
>
> >
> http://books.google.com/books?id=SlrQAAAAMAAJ&dq=weston%20meteorite%201807%2
> 0woodhouse&pg=PA267#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
> >
>
> > After Sillimans and Kingsley return from Weston, on
> December 29, 1807
>
> > Silliman and Kingsley sent a preliminary description
> of the fall phenomena
>
>
> > and the stones to The Connecticut Herald, in New
> Haven, making the report
>
> > one of the first published report on the Weston
> meteorite fall.( Marvin
>
> > B47 2007, The origins of modern meteorite research) A
> day later, December
>
> > 30, 1807 Dr Benjamin Rush handed over some specimens
> from the Weston
>
> > meteorite to James Woodhouse for analysis.
>
> >
>
> > Cited from:
>
> >
> http://books.google.com/books?id=SlrQAAAAMAAJ&dq=weston%20meteorite%201807%2
> 0woodhouse&pg=PA267#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
> >
>
> > And now this is where the dilemma lays with Silliman
> and Woodhouse and the
>
>
> > rivalry between the two could have started. Stated
> earlier, in January
>
> > 1808 Silliman's manuscript accounts the analysis of
> the Weston fall and at
>
>
> > that time Woodhouse's analysis had been unpublished
> and to some felt his
>
> > work to be unsound and loose.
>
> >
>
> > "On 1808 March 4, the memoir by Silliman and Kingsley
>
>
> > was read to the American Philosophical Society and
> assigned
>
> > to referees Woodhouse, Hare, and Cloud, who were so
>
> > favorably impressed that they recommended publication
> in
>
> > the forthcoming volume of the society?s Transactions
>
>
> > (Marvin 1979), which, however, would not appear until
> the
>
> > following year. Meanwhile, their work became widely
> known
>
> > in Europe when Silliman submitted their paper to
> various
>
> > European editors with high hopes of reaching a
> readership
>
> > knowledgeable about meteorites and their chemistry.
> His
>
> > hopes were quickly fulfilled. During 1808, excerpts or
>
>
> > abstracts appeared in several well-known European
> journals,
>
> > including the Philosophical Magazine, Biblioth?que
>
> > Britannique, Annalen der Physik, Journal de Physique,
> de
>
> > Chemie, et d?Histoire Naturelle, and Journal des
> Mines. A
>
> > copy was read to the Royal Society in London, and a
>
> > newspaper article on it had been translated into
> French and
>
> > read to the National Institute in Paris before a rapt
> audience
>
> > including Fourcroy, Vauquelin, Berthollet, Laplace,
>
> > Lagrange, and Biot (Brown 1989:236). All of this
> attention
>
> > served not only to raise Silliman, who was at the very
>
>
> > beginning of his career, into the ranks of
> internationally
>
> > known scientists, but also to elevate the status of
> Yale
>
> > University and, indeed, of American science,
> itself?even
>
> > before the publication of the memoir in the
> Transactions of
>
> > the American Philosophical Society in 1809."
>
> >
>
> > (Marvin B47 2007, The origins of modern meteorite
> research)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Now is the rivalry between Silliman and Woodhouse on
> who published the
>
> > analysis first or is it seeded deeper between the two
> individauls on the
>
> > greatest meteorite fall in American HISTORY? One can
> concluded that
>
> > Silliman and Kingsley went to Weston. Stilliman's
> preliminary description
>
> > of the meteorite fall was published on December 29th
> 1807. In March 1808
>
> > Silliman and Kingsley read their memoir of the Weston
> meteorite fall and
>
> > analysis in front of the American Philosophical
> Society and to further
>
> > their analysis and research had numerous excerpts and
> abstractions
>
> > published in Europe in 1808. In addition, many sources
> had concluded that
>
> > "Silliman's scientific work, which was extensive,
> began with the
>
> > examination in 1807 of the meteor that fell near
> Weston, Conn. He procured
>
>
> > fragments, of which he made a chemical analysis, and
> he wrote the earliest
>
>
> > and best authenticated account' of the fall of a
> meteor in America."
>
> >
>
> > As for Woodhouse is concerd, his reputation as a
> chemist and mineralogist
>
> > was not high and to some, seen as being loose and not
> being dependable
>
> > with analysis of stones. Now does the rivalry lay in
> the lack of evidence
>
> > that one might present in an argument of why Woodhouse
> deserves
>
> > accreditation or is the rivalry a mere conflict
> bewteen student/teacher, a
>
>
> > delemma that presented its self at the time of
> meteoritic science was at
>
> > the for front in America, the race for notoriety of
> the first American to
>
> > have a well documented account with the first American
> meteorite fall, THE
>
>
> > WESTON meteorite.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Thank you
>
> > Shawn Alan
>
> > IMCA 1633
>
> > eBaystore
>
> > http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ______________________________________________
>
> > Visit the Archives at
>
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>
>
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>
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>
>
> >
>
>
>
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> and Woodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE????
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Received on Wed 23 Feb 2011 12:49:14 AM PST