[meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}

From: Steve Schoner <schoner_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 19:27:42 GMT
Message-ID: <20110222.122742.6079.0_at_webmail04.dca.untd.com>

Greg,

Actually just using the solution will not discolor the specimen. With that Campo it was wire brushed and some type of wax placed on it to make it look attractive.

When the rusting began, it was real bad, blebs of FeCl3 coming out in numerous places.

The treatment worked and the result was a natural looking piece. (I can't stand wire brushed irons).

What is interesting is that this Campo has some silicate inclusions and these still retain fusion crust. So the year soak did not remove that aspect of the the specimen.

The addition of zinc causes an electrolytic reaction as I found with the Morosko. It was very aggressive, and the solution soon became a rusty soup bubbling away as the zinc was being reduced.

Adding aluminum is even more aggressive. In essence you are creating a battery where the electrons migrate from one type of metal to another.

You want the chlorine ions to migrate away from the iron to another different metal such as zinc.

The downside is that zinc and or aluminum compounds will then be deposited on the meteorite.

But these can be removed using white vinegar.

The way that sea salted iron artifacts are preserved use sodium hydroxide as an electrolyte, another grid of metal separated from that and not touching the side of the container and the artifact is the cathode and the grid the anode. A micro current is applied and this forces the Chlorine ions from the artifact to migrate toward the grid. In the process of travel they then interact with the NaOH electrolyte and become salt NaCl The liberated OH then moves over to the artifact and becomes a jelly like mass of Fe0H2-3. When the process is finished, depending on the size of the artifact of meteorite, when it dries out the FeOH2-3 becomes FeO2-3 as the hydrogen leaves the weak bond to iron to bond to atmospheric oxygen, or just float up and beyond to outer space.

Rather than deal with doing an electrolytic process adding a micro volt source, a plastic container the meteorite, the solution just by itself seems to work for most. If you have to add a piece of zinc set it of to the side, of the plastic bowl so that it becomes part of the static battery.

As for slicing, it will go as deep as the the larger cracks, but not so much the very fine hairline ones. So if you cut a treated specimen it is best to then treat the slices.

I have found some amazing results with irons, using just the solution with no addition of metal.

I polish and etch the iron slice, and then soak in the solution. It is amazing what happens. First, blebs of jelly FeOH2-3 appear if chlorine is still evident in the piece. But what this caustic soda does to the iron minerals that don't etch, is astounding. They turn colors. Gold, iridescent blue, like a rainbow.

With a metallurgic microscope, what previously was just a shiny surface with no detail is now a beautiful etched iridescent beauty.

And better yet, I have found that it it is best to not coat the iron. Just leave it. And handle it by the edges, like you would a fine coin.

Unless you touch it with finger prints it will stay beautiful.

Steve.







---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at centurylink.net>
To: "Steve Schoner" <schoner at mybluelight.com>, <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 13:52:33 -0500

Hi Steve,

Thank you for the process you use. When I first moved to Florida I met with
some of the old time treasure hunters who shared their methods of conserving
ship wreck items (iron cannons, cannon balls, muskets, etc.) using the
Reverse Electrolysis method using Red Devil Lye or Soda Ash as the
electrolyte. They used electric current in their process, but it is nice to
know electricity is not necessary. I did some items for two years,
babysitting the process, replacing electrodes and solution every few months
(a very messy job). I think I will try your process as well.

After you have run your process on some of the irons or pallasites, have you
sliced them afterwards? Just curious if the process of soaking them somehow
stains or discolors them in any way.

Best Regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
gmhupe at centurylink.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Schoner
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 1:37 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}

30 years ago, I developed a simple process for treating these rusters using
white sodium hydroxide crystals (Red Devil Lye which can be bought at most
groceries), 70% rubbing alcohol and distilled water.

With it I have treated effectively meteorites up to 150 lbs.

I have sitting in my corner a 150 lb Campo that was rusting so badly that I
could hear the flakes popping off and falling to the floor.

Pounds of rust flakes fell off of it.

So, to solve this problem I rolled and muscled the 150 lbs ruster into the
plastic shipping container and righted it up.

And I used my solution tried and tested with many variations over the last
30 years.

1lb Red Devil Lye (white crystals)

Two gallons of store bought rubbing alcohol. (Usually in plastic bottles of
quart size for less than $2 ea)

Two gallons of distilled water.

And a medium sized plastic shipping container with lid.

Mix half a pound of Red Devil Lye in 2 gal of water. Do it in small amounts
as the reaction is exothermic and the water will get hot.

When done, mix this into the two gal of rubbing alcohol.

You will have the remaining half pound of lye crystals to add if you decide
to repeat the process a second time, or you can add increments more till you
see that brine begins to form what look like bubbles at the bottom of the
plastic container.

Then I poured the solution into the plastic shipping container holding the
150 lb Campo, and covered it with the plastic lid.

And...

I let it sit for a year. Yes, that is right, a year for big specimens.

Over that time I monitored it to see the progress. Numerous green blobs
appeared over the meteorite. I could see streamers of rust coming off of
it. And the solution at the bottom of the plastic container took on a rusty
hue. And so I let the process work for a year.

Result...

Used a plastic hand pump to remove the tainted solution. The chlorides that
caused the meteorite to rust now converted to NaCl (salt) in solution, taken
out.

I then replaced it with two gallons of distilled water to further remove the
salty water and residual NaOH. Let is soak for a couple of weeks. Repeated
the process for another couple of weeks.

And finally rolled the 150 lb Campo out to dry and for the last 7 years it
has sat in my corner, no longer popping of rust flakes.

It is cured, and actually looks like it was freshly dug up and cleaned of
dirt.

Now I recently tried another ruster: Morasko.

I have 690 gm complete specimen that started to rust. Placed it in a a
small batch of my solution and let it sit for several months. It was cured.
But in this case I did something else with it. I put a piece of zinc off to
the side of it. This actually caused an electrolytic reaction where the
Chlorine ions were attracted to the zinc and the zinc in turn became a
deposit on the meteorite giving it a rather un-natural appearance. So to
correct this, I then soaked the Morasko in white vinegar for a week, and the
result was a natural looking piece.

And non rusting.

So I have used this on not only these rusters and some pallastes, but even a
mesosiderite, the notorious ruster, Lamont, KS, one that I discovered in
1996.

I have used it on iron slices, too.

Depending on the size of the specimen the soak time varies. Small thin
pieces a couple of weeks. Really big ones such as the 150 lb Campo a year
or more.

In all of these cases it worked.

The tech is free to all.

Try it, you have nothing to lose with a meteorite that rusting away anyway.

Steve Schoner
www.petroslides.com
IMCA 4470


Message: 2
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 11:12:27 -0500
From: Michael Gilmer <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The
trials...}
To: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at centurylink.net>
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID:
<AANLkTi=XdaymRsbgERqAqu+vqud-XSNK9fz9Q8b60B=t at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi Greg and List,

You won't regret contacting Pat. I'm not saying that Pat is some kind
of magician, but his results are almost "magical".

For example, I will give an example from a fellow List-member's
experience. This person can chime in if they want, but I won't
mention the name because this person has no idea I was going to offer
up a testimonial on their behalf.

Having said that, this person bought one of Pat's Campos that is about
the size of grapefruit. This Campo now resides in one of the wettest
climates in the Western hemisphere. In addition to the wet location,
this Campo is used in outreach/educational work and it comes into
contact with dozens of sweaty little kid hands on a regular basis.
After over a year of this exposure, the specimen still shows no sign
of rusting.

Another specimen went to a prominent amateur astronomer (not a list
member) who uses the Campo in outreach work also - again, this
specimen comes into contact with sweaty little hands and is kept out
in the open without any special precautions to prevent rust. And this
specimen also shows no signs of rusting after several months of this
kind of "abuse".

Pat's process also works on pallasites and I have sold a few of these
specimens to buyers in various locales - and all of them are pleased
with the stability of their pieces.

In the interest of full disclosure, I should state that I do get a
kickback from Pat for the business I refer to him. But, I am
blatantly honest about meteorites (to the point of pissing off a lot
of people) and I would wholeheatedly endorse his process even if I was
not receiving a kickback. I love meteorites and I want all meteorites
to be preserved and cherished for generations to come. I think it is
a noble endeavor to save these hopeless rusters from oblivion and it
is my wish that Pat's process should see widespread use to save
specimens like Admire from a horrible fate. I'd much rather see an
Admire mass saved through Pat's process, than to see it dissolved in
acid and rendered down into a pile of olivines.

I think most people would agree, that on an aesthetic basis, Admire is
a beautiful pallasite. If it's propensity to rust is removed from the
equation, then Admire could hold it's own against any other pallasite
on the market. The same could be said for Brenham also.

I'd love for the skeptics to try Pat's process and try to make a liar
out of me. I truly believe, in due time, Pat is going to become
well-known and respected for his work. As of right now, he is not
widely known and he is much more available for work. Once word gets
out about the effectiveness of his process, I fully expect there will
be a long waiting-list for his services.

Imagine a world full of stable Nantans, Campos, Droninos, Admires, and
Brenhams! That would be a great thing and I hope more people will try
Pat's process and see for themselves.

Best regards,

MikeG



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Received on Tue 22 Feb 2011 02:27:42 PM PST