[meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality

From: Michael Mulgrew <mikestang_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 12:01:32 -0700
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=ANyNa5WHbWZpsuooQieXv2_BPEQ_at_mail.gmail.com>

A speech was given at the 22nd Annual UVU Symposium on Environmental
Ethics, held April 1st and 2nd at Utah Valley University, that
addressed energy myths and realities.? Not entirely related to oil
reserves, but it's a great read and can be found here:
http://www.questar.com/news/2009_news/UVUSpeech.pdf

-Michael in so. Cal.


On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Greg Catterton
<star_wars_collector at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I think its more very long term thinking by the USA to corner the oil market once everyone elses oil supply is gone. The USA will end up being the next oil exporting giant. Use everyone elses then use ours.
>
> Greg Catterton
> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
> IMCA member 4682
> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
> On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites
>
>
> --- On Fri, 4/8/11, Tim Heitz <midwestmeteor at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> From: Tim Heitz <midwestmeteor at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality
>> To: "David R. Vann" <drvann at sas.upenn.edu>, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Friday, April 8, 2011, 2:51 PM
>> Hi David,
>>
>> 340 billion dollars leaves the U.S. every year to buy oil,
>> when we
>> have all the oil we need right here, its the 24 billion
>> barrels at the Bakken Oil Formation in S.D.
>>
>> Our politicians are running this scam and we are the fools.
>> Think of all the jobs this would create
>> and onshore drilling would also be much safer against oil
>> spills, keeping the money here,? would
>> also greatly help America.? Just what are the
>> politicians thinking?
>>
>> Will the oil in the Bakken Formation free us from depending
>> on foreign oil?
>> You bet it will.
>>
>>
>> We need more money to buy meteorites:)
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Timothy? Heitz -? not Ph.d
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David R. Vann" <drvann at sas.upenn.edu>
>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 1:16 PM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Thought maybe it was time to change the thread title,
>> and maybe stop this
>> > non-meteorite thread. In truth, I am responding to
>> correct some factually
>> > inaccurate statements.
>> >
>> > Guido, I respectfully suggest that you investigate the
>> facts before you make
>> > statements like "We are played for fools by the career
>> politicians in Washington
>> > who pander to the environmentalists and prevent us
>> from tapping our own reserves
>> > which are larger and easier to obtain than all the oil
>> in the Middle East.
>> > That's why we object to increased pump prices."
>> >
>> > Politicians are not pandering to environmentalists,
>> they are pandering to
>> > businesses, I think the events of the last thirty
>> years speak very strongly to
>> > this; attacks on the Clean Air and Clean water acts,
>> the Great Recession, the
>> > Savings and Loan disaster, the Energy trading frauds,
>> etc. (I can go on for
>> > quite a while here, but is not the forum).
>> > Environmentalists have very little influence on the
>> price of oil, if any.
>> > Rather, market forces determine this entirely.
>> Examples: in the late '70's oil
>> > did not skyrocket because of environmentalists, it did
>> so because OPEC was
>> > flexing its newfound muscle. Oil prices did not jump
>> prior to the Great
>> > Recession because of environmentalists; it jumped
>> because of speculators and
>> > because the oil refiners underestimated demand by
>> China and India, resulting in
>> > inadequte production capacity (there was plenty of
>> crude oil). The cost of oil
>> > is related to the cost of drilling; I could, again, go
>> on, but this isn't really
>> > the forum. Suffice it to say, the price of oil is
>> driven by market factors that
>> > are *not* related to supply, as the supply can be (and
>> frequently is) increased
>> > to meet demand.
>> >
>> > So, environmentalists atempting to reduce drilling are
>> not affecting the price,
>> > regardless of how one wants to view it. Most recently,
>> the state of Florida,
>> > under a Republican govorner, decided to limit in-shore
>> drilling to protect the
>> > states' fishing and tourist industries. They were
>> deemed more valuable (to the
>> > state) than the short-term gains from onshore drilling
>> - an economic argument,
>> > not an environmental one.
>> >
>> > Our oil prices are lower because we consume so much,
>> getting a discount, and
>> > because we subsidize the oil companies with tax
>> dollars. Government subsidies
>> > for profitable companies are not defensible, yet they
>> keep getting them, because
>> > the politicians are pandering to the industries paying
>> for their reelection.
>> >
>> >
>> > The final inaccuracy, " tapping our own reserves which
>> are larger and easier to
>> > obtain than all the oil in the Middle East" is the
>> most egregious. This is
>> > simply wrong. The proven resources in the US are about
>> 22 billion barrels of
>> > oil; Saudi arabia *alone* has an estimated 270 billion
>> barrels. Although that
>> > number has been questioned as possibly politically
>> motivated, it is not
>> > overestmated by a factor of ten. If we take the 1968
>> numbers (before OPEC), they
>> > had something like 170 billion barrels, still
>> fabulously more than our reserves.
>> >
>> > Our remaining reserves are not easier to obtain
>> (discounting the politcal issues
>> > related to dealing with the Middle East), as they are
>> increasingly deep water
>> > reserves (whose difficulty was amply demonstrated last
>> summer) or in shales,
>> > which are environmentally destructive and
>> energetically and mechanically
>> > difficult to extract; in fact, to date, there has been
>> no economically viable
>> > method to extract these (but we will, when gas is
>> expensive enough). The oil
>> > companies are going for the easy fruit first, as it is
>> the most profitable.
>> >
>> >
>> > Sorry, but I have a difficult time letting false
>> information get distributed -
>> > much like the NYT article. Plenty of others responded
>> to that, so I'm responding
>> > to this one. The fact is, the Middle East holds more
>> than one-half of the total
>> > reserves in the world. North America, including the
>> shale sands in Canada holds
>> > maybe 16%. The largest reserves are in Venezuela,
>> Saudi Arabia and the former
>> > USSR.
>> >
>> > We consume about 6.6 billion barrels per year, so we
>> have about 3 or 4 years, if
>> > we drilled everything (that we 'own').
>> >
>> > The world average consumption rate vs the reserves
>> indicates that we have about
>> > 50-60 years left (at current consumption rates, which
>> are increasing
>> > substantially each year).
>> >
>> > So, to recap this too long message:
>> >
>> > Oil prices reflect market forces, not environmentalist
>> obstruction.
>> > The US does not have more oil, easily obtained or not,
>> than the Middle East.
>> >
>> > We complain about high oil prices, not because of
>> politicians, but because it
>> > means we have fewer dollars left to buy meteorites.
>> > (that puts it back on topic. Sort of.)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > David R. Vann, Ph.D.
>> > Department of Earth and Environmental Science
>> > THE UNIVERSITY of PENNSYLVANIA
>> > 240 S. 33rd St.
>> > Philadelphia, PA 19104-6316
>> > drvann at sas.upenn.edu
>> > office: 215-898-4906
>> > FAX: 215-898-0964
>> >
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Received on Fri 08 Apr 2011 03:01:32 PM PDT