[meteorite-list] Planetary Pairings...Whoops

From: Martin Altmann <altmann_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 01:07:18 +0200
Message-ID: <00a601cb5f61$e6472600$b2d57200$_at_de>

Though I wrote it privately... ;-)

But especially the lunars and Martians, which are always checked, if they
are paired,
there one can see well, that there is no rule, that no stone comes alone
from NWA.

Some have immediate pairings, from some every few years another sample
surfaces,
others there suddenly after a long break of many years more comes to light.


So far unpaired NWA-Martians are:

NWA 817
NWA 856
NWA 998
NWA 1195
NWA 1669
NWA 1950
NWA 2046
NWA 2626
NWA 2646
NWA 2737
NWA 2800
NWA 3137
NWA 4222
NWA 4468
NWA 4480
NWA 4797
NWA 5029
NWA 5289
NWA 5718
NWA 5789
NWA 5990
NWA 6162

So from the 28 different NWA-Martian, there are only 6 which build up a
pairing group.
22 are unpaired.

Moon:

Unpaired:

NWA 482
NWA 2200
NWA 2998
NWA 3163
NWA 4734
NWA 4819
NWA 4884
NWA 4898
NWA 4932
NWA 5000
NWA 5153
NWA 5207
NWA 5744

(The NWA 773 - Anoual I lumped together)


So there 13 out of 19 unpaired.


Well, and as far as the general rareness of NWAs compared to historical
finds/falls is concerned.
To me it seems, that the NWAs in general - also if you take paired numbers
together - have on average a much smaller tkw than non-desert-finds. Well
one would need some ling winter-evenings to verify that.

Though sometimes - tiny fragments, without any crust, non-magnetic
achrondites - e.g. some of the Martians from the NWA 2975 - or if you
remember the tiny peas of the NWA 1068 group, looking like sandstone.
For me it's a sheer riddle, how you can find such pieces at all!
Crawling on my knees through the field, I wouldn't find them.

Or cause we just had it NWA 4485, NWA 4472 - all around a fat weathering
crust, white like chalk.
Who the heck would ever pick up such a stone from the field and suspect it
to be a meteorite?

It is truly amazing, what the hunters do down there.

Best!
Martin



-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Greg Hupe [mailto:gmhupe at htn.net]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. September 2010 00:26
An: Martin Altmann
Cc: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Planetary Pairings...Whoops

Martin wrote:

"Shhhht 4472 has 4485 as pair..."

Whoops! My misstake, Martin is absolutley correct, NWA 4485 is paired to NWA

4472...Now I feel like a "KREEP"! lol

GregH


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg
Hupe
Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. September 2010 23:58
An: Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !

Hi MikeG and List

Your points are well taken. You are correct in that the Internet has opened
up the world for direct communication and sales, not only for meteorites,
but everything on Earth (and new visitors from space)! That is a good thing!

This is not the point of discussion in this thread, but a good subject all
the same.

Getting back on track...Here are just a couple examples of single-stone NWA
meteorites with zero pairings:

NWA 482 Lunar (its been over 10 years since its discovery)
NWA 998 Martian (one stone with a few interlocking pieces)
NWA 1195 Martian (one stone in two pieces)
NWA 1459 Olivine Diogenite
skipping ahead a little...
NWA 4468 Martian
NWA 4472 Lunar
NWA 5000 Lunar
....and the list goes on, and these are only a couple of single-stone NWA
classifications we have dealt with. I should have written in my first reply,

"...discovered by me, Adam and others throughout [time with the help of
finders like nomads in the case of some NWA's]."

With all of the different nomads, NWA dealers and foreign hunters in
Northwest Africa, any 'pairings' would have certainly appeared by now,
especially considering planetary meteorites where the original finders went
back time and time again without further finds, like in the case of NWA 482,

being the oldest in my list above. People complain about "no strewnfield
information" when it comes to NWA's, but since the NWA finders DO keep track

of their find data, they are able to find more of a meteorite, IF there is
more to be found. I would venture to say that the NWA data will come out
eventually once the hunters there decide to release it. Sure we may never
receive this data from some of the NWA finders, but I would hope the more
responsible people in NWA will encourage their friends to offer up this data

eventually, adding to the scientific 'value' of the strewnfield. Time will
tell...

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

----- Original Message -----
From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
To: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
Cc: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>;
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !


> Hi Greg and List,
>
> I wasn't trying to take a shot at anyone. But the marketplace has
> changed, even in the brief 3 years I have been active on it. There
> was a time, not long ago, that the number of stateside dealers who
> bought directly from the Moroccan sources could be counted on two
> hands - not counting buying from a wholesaler at a show like Tucson.
> 10 years ago, how many people were wiring money to the Moroccans for
> Fed-Ex packages full of meteorites that were destined for resale? I
> would wager that it was not very many compared to now. On Facebook
> alone, there are no less than 2 dozen overseas and Moroccan dealers
> who are selling directly to the end collector. These sellers know
> they can get more money for their stones by selling to a newbie dealer
> or end collector, than selling to a veteran dealer. I wasn't taking a
> shot at NWA 5400 or the Hupes. I think that nowadays, any meteorite
> that is offered to one dealer, is going to be offered to several
> dealers and collectors - to maximize profit. Our overseas friends are
> eager students of capitalism and they are simply applying the same
> lessons they have learned after years of watching their stones get
> sold for pennies on the dollar and then flipped onto the market of end
> collectors for a profit. This is happening more and more now.
> Speaking from personal experience, I have now processed (sliced and
> polished) a new NWA meteorite from 2 independent Moroccan sources.
> Guess what? It's the same meteorite and there is a 3rd dealer
> offering this same material. All 3 meteorites are exactly the same
> and have 3 different NWA numbers. Of course, I am making a casual
> pairing based on handling the material and I cannot say for certain
> they are exactly the same without microprobe and/or O-isotope. But
> from talking to these dealers, each one had no idea that other dealers
> were being offered the same material. Each one thought they were
> getting an exclusive deal.
>
> If I am an overseas source, I know I will get more money per gram for
> my stones if I sell them to a collector on Facebook versus selling
> them to a seasoned dealer like Adam or Greg. Now that this fact is
> well known, the genie is out of the bottle. Exclusivity for NWA finds
> is dead.
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
>
> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
> Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
> Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
> EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> On 9/28/10, Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net> wrote:
>> Hello Eric and All,
>>
>> MikeG wrote:
>> "So, if NWA 5400 turned up in the Hupe inventory, you can bet your bottom
>> dollar that the same meteorite will show up in other dealer inventories
>> under a different NWA number(s)."
>>
>> MikeG obviously made a hip-shot, knee-jerk uninformed comment.
>> Considering
>> there are plenty of single stone classifications discovered by
>> me, Adam and other people throughtout. At least some people are finally
>> discussing that
>> in order to make an NWA 5400 pairing, oxygen isotope work MUST be
>> completed, period!! This has been my argument from Day 1 when "NWA 5363"
>> was
>> claimed as a pairing without any oxygen work being performed!
>> People need to go back and re-read my very first announcement of NWA
>> 5400,
>> and then my first comments about "NWA 5363". As mentioned in my last
>> email
>> regarding this thread, I do not feel I need to keep harping on these
>> facts.
>> I appreciate a few cool heads making these statements on their own,
>> refreshing to know a few people still understand the value of patience
>> and
>> thorough work!
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Greg
>>
>> ====================
>> Greg Hupe
>> The Hupe Collection
>> NaturesVault (eBay)
>> gmhupe at htn.net
>> www.LunarRock.com
>> IMCA 3163
>> ====================
>> Click here for my current eBay auctions:
>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 4:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
>>
>>
>>> What do you mean, am I reading this right? You assume because 1 person
>>> has a piece of a rare meteorite that it's an absolute that more of that
>>> meteorite exists?
>>>
>>> This certainly doesn't take into account single meteorite
>>> classifications at all. Are you saying the EVERY NWA ever classified has
>>> a pairing? Because that's what this sounds like.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Eric
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/28/2010 12:36 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote:
>>>> So, if
>>>> NWA 5400 turned up in the Hupe inventory, you can bet your bottom
>>>> dollar that the same meteorite will show up in other dealer
>>>> inventories under a different NWA number(s).
>>> ______________________________________________
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>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
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>>
>>
>>
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Received on Tue 28 Sep 2010 07:07:18 PM PDT