[meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !

From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 18:20:33 -0400
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=kW18UC14sMH5FgZP-wNy4dc59QUVbxv1VQ-GG_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hi Greg and List,

Thanks for the schooling on non-paired NWA finds. Yes, there are some
outstanding specimens like NWA 482 that sit atop a lonely perch with
no pairings. We are now approaching 7000 NWA meteorites, and it's
going to be a long time before all of the data is compared. As Martin
and others said, we see many more pairings with planetaries because
those are the most studied. No lab is investing time and money to
comb the NWA catalogue looking for pairings, especially amongst
ordinary chondrites. It would be interesting to see how many of the
almost 7000 NWA meteorites are actually paired and perhaps someday
that information will become available - it would make a nice project
for a team of bored scientists and grad students.

I think as time goes on, we will see more redundant NWA numbers. The
number of unpaired finds will probably remain steady, but the
proliferation of the internet and the market into other parts of the
world has greatly changed the supply part of the equation. I'm not
trying to speak for anyone here, and if I am off-base, somebody
correct me, but if I am sitting in Morocco and I have a sack full of
meteorites that I suspect are a scarce type with a good monetary
value, then I am not going to offer them all to one buyer at one
price. I am going to shop them around and try to get the most profit
I can for those specimens. Now, I can sit in an internet cafe or
borrow my uncle's laptop, and offer those specimens to anyone in the
US, Europe or the world, at any price I decide to charge. In fact, I
can give different prices to different buyers based on the situation.
I am no longer limited to offering my specimens to tourists, dealers
who visit Morocco, and a small group of buyers that I have dealt with
previously. I can sell to complete and total strangers for top
dollar. It is an interesting dynamic to watch play out as the
internet, social networking, and meteorites come together. It has
good effects and bad effects on the market, depending on where the
fickle winds are blowing for that day. In general, I guess it means
the price is going up. If the NWA situation had peaked before the
creation of the internet, the market would not have been as
dramatically effected, methinks.

Best regards and happy huntings,

MikeG

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites

Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
-----------------------------------------------------------------------








On 9/28/10, Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net> wrote:
> Hi MikeG and List
>
> Your points are well taken. You are correct in that the Internet has opened
> up the world for direct communication and sales, not only for meteorites,
> but everything on Earth (and new visitors from space)! That is a good thing!
> This is not the point of discussion in this thread, but a good subject all
> the same.
>
> Getting back on track...Here are just a couple examples of single-stone NWA
> meteorites with zero pairings:
>
> NWA 482 Lunar (its been over 10 years since its discovery)
> NWA 998 Martian (one stone with a few interlocking pieces)
> NWA 1195 Martian (one stone in two pieces)
> NWA 1459 Olivine Diogenite
> skipping ahead a little...
> NWA 4468 Martian
> NWA 4472 Lunar
> NWA 5000 Lunar
> ....and the list goes on, and these are only a couple of single-stone NWA
> classifications we have dealt with. I should have written in my first reply,
> "...discovered by me, Adam and others throughout [time with the help of
> finders like nomads in the case of some NWA's]."
>
> With all of the different nomads, NWA dealers and foreign hunters in
> Northwest Africa, any 'pairings' would have certainly appeared by now,
> especially considering planetary meteorites where the original finders went
> back time and time again without further finds, like in the case of NWA 482,
> being the oldest in my list above. People complain about "no strewnfield
> information" when it comes to NWA's, but since the NWA finders DO keep track
> of their find data, they are able to find more of a meteorite, IF there is
> more to be found. I would venture to say that the NWA data will come out
> eventually once the hunters there decide to release it. Sure we may never
> receive this data from some of the NWA finders, but I would hope the more
> responsible people in NWA will encourage their friends to offer up this data
> eventually, adding to the scientific 'value' of the strewnfield. Time will
> tell...
>
> Best regards,
> Greg
>
> ====================
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> NaturesVault (eBay)
> gmhupe at htn.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
> ====================
> Click here for my current eBay auctions:
> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> To: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
> Cc: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>;
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 5:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
>
>
>> Hi Greg and List,
>>
>> I wasn't trying to take a shot at anyone. But the marketplace has
>> changed, even in the brief 3 years I have been active on it. There
>> was a time, not long ago, that the number of stateside dealers who
>> bought directly from the Moroccan sources could be counted on two
>> hands - not counting buying from a wholesaler at a show like Tucson.
>> 10 years ago, how many people were wiring money to the Moroccans for
>> Fed-Ex packages full of meteorites that were destined for resale? I
>> would wager that it was not very many compared to now. On Facebook
>> alone, there are no less than 2 dozen overseas and Moroccan dealers
>> who are selling directly to the end collector. These sellers know
>> they can get more money for their stones by selling to a newbie dealer
>> or end collector, than selling to a veteran dealer. I wasn't taking a
>> shot at NWA 5400 or the Hupes. I think that nowadays, any meteorite
>> that is offered to one dealer, is going to be offered to several
>> dealers and collectors - to maximize profit. Our overseas friends are
>> eager students of capitalism and they are simply applying the same
>> lessons they have learned after years of watching their stones get
>> sold for pennies on the dollar and then flipped onto the market of end
>> collectors for a profit. This is happening more and more now.
>> Speaking from personal experience, I have now processed (sliced and
>> polished) a new NWA meteorite from 2 independent Moroccan sources.
>> Guess what? It's the same meteorite and there is a 3rd dealer
>> offering this same material. All 3 meteorites are exactly the same
>> and have 3 different NWA numbers. Of course, I am making a casual
>> pairing based on handling the material and I cannot say for certain
>> they are exactly the same without microprobe and/or O-isotope. But
>> from talking to these dealers, each one had no idea that other dealers
>> were being offered the same material. Each one thought they were
>> getting an exclusive deal.
>>
>> If I am an overseas source, I know I will get more money per gram for
>> my stones if I sell them to a collector on Facebook versus selling
>> them to a seasoned dealer like Adam or Greg. Now that this fact is
>> well known, the genie is out of the bottle. Exclusivity for NWA finds
>> is dead.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
>>
>> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
>> Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>> News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
>> Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
>> EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> On 9/28/10, Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net> wrote:
>>> Hello Eric and All,
>>>
>>> MikeG wrote:
>>> "So, if NWA 5400 turned up in the Hupe inventory, you can bet your bottom
>>> dollar that the same meteorite will show up in other dealer inventories
>>> under a different NWA number(s)."
>>>
>>> MikeG obviously made a hip-shot, knee-jerk uninformed comment.
>>> Considering
>>> there are plenty of single stone classifications discovered by
>>> me, Adam and other people throughtout. At least some people are finally
>>> discussing that
>>> in order to make an NWA 5400 pairing, oxygen isotope work MUST be
>>> completed, period!! This has been my argument from Day 1 when "NWA 5363"
>>> was
>>> claimed as a pairing without any oxygen work being performed!
>>> People need to go back and re-read my very first announcement of NWA
>>> 5400,
>>> and then my first comments about "NWA 5363". As mentioned in my last
>>> email
>>> regarding this thread, I do not feel I need to keep harping on these
>>> facts.
>>> I appreciate a few cool heads making these statements on their own,
>>> refreshing to know a few people still understand the value of patience
>>> and
>>> thorough work!
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> ====================
>>> Greg Hupe
>>> The Hupe Collection
>>> NaturesVault (eBay)
>>> gmhupe at htn.net
>>> www.LunarRock.com
>>> IMCA 3163
>>> ====================
>>> Click here for my current eBay auctions:
>>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 4:15 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
>>>
>>>
>>>> What do you mean, am I reading this right? You assume because 1 person
>>>> has a piece of a rare meteorite that it's an absolute that more of that
>>>> meteorite exists?
>>>>
>>>> This certainly doesn't take into account single meteorite
>>>> classifications at all. Are you saying the EVERY NWA ever classified has
>>>> a pairing? Because that's what this sounds like.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Eric
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/28/2010 12:36 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote:
>>>>> So, if
>>>>> NWA 5400 turned up in the Hupe inventory, you can bet your bottom
>>>>> dollar that the same meteorite will show up in other dealer
>>>>> inventories under a different NWA number(s).
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>>
>> --
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Received on Tue 28 Sep 2010 06:20:33 PM PDT