[meteorite-list] Origin of Tektites

From: Martin Altmann <altmann_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 03:20:10 +0200
Message-ID: <001401cb553d$4e6ccbb0$eb466310$_at_de>

In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.

                                                       Benjamin Franklin

For me there is enough smoke.

:-)
Martin


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von cdtucson at cox.net
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. September 2010 23:41
An: Martin Altmann; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Origin of Tektites

Martin,
Thank you for being in agreement with me.
As you point out in this link.
There is no smoking gun there.
I like the way the charts look so similar.
Problem is they don't show any other reference rocks for there comparisons.
Basalt's included from a couple of Known Planets might have made a better chart.
Why would they not put Earth and Earth's Moon on the same charts for comparison with the Mars rocks?
And how do they know those rocks are not meteorites themselves? They know the Irons they have found are meteorites..
Okay, we can assume they are Mars rocks since they are on Mars. But,
This is how people make points without really proving a point.
Kind a like showing a chart with a mouse and an elephant side by side in order to prove they are the same.
The chart could say.
They both have eyes. Check
They both have skin. Check
They both have tails. Check.
etc etc, etc...................."Houston, we have a match".
Not.
In other words we could do better than that.
I know we also both agree that these rocks came from Mars.
There is a chart that exists in an abstract that I have seen that shows all of the meteorites and the rovers all together on a single chart and none of them match exactly even with each other so nobody expects a perfect match. Just Earth rocks should maybe have been on their charts. Or maybe not.
NASA has it's purpose. I like everyone else would love to have samples from all of these planets in hand. It would make the Science much better.
We have not yet figured out tektites and lightning yet and they are both right here so there is no rush here.
What I would like to see is a simple test that would determine an Earth rock from an Achondrite. Too many earth rocks look like meteorites.
NWA 5400 looks just like a brachinite but it is not one and looks also a lot like a chassignite which looks a lot like an Earth dunite. Randy's pages add tons more to that short list of look a likes. We won't even mention the Lunar look a likes.
I hunt more than most people. Have been doing so, for 21 years. Just 5 finds in all that time. Not too good considering I live in AZ. but I still have huge piles of unclassified prospects in my back yard. Waiting to become recognized. as from Venus and Mercury and I hope I have a few from our Moon.
Thanks.
Carl

Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de> wrote:
> Hi Carl

>In fact we cannot know with 100% certainty that we even have rocks from Mars.




http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040414a.html

'Bounce' and Shergotty Share Common Ground

This illustration compares the spectrum of "Bounce," a rock at Meridiani Planum, to that of a martian meteorite found on Earth called Shergotty. Bounce's spectrum, and thus mineral composition, is unique to the rocks studied so far at Merdiani Planum and Gusev Crater, the landings sites of the Mars Exploration Rovers Opportunity and Spirit. However, the results here indicate that Bounce is not a one-of-a-kind rock, but shares origins with Shergotty. Shergotty landed in India in 1865. Bounce's spectra were taken on sol 67 by Opportunity's M?ssbauer spectrometer.


Meteorite Linked to Rock at Meridiani

This meteorite, a basalt lava rock nearly indistinguishable from many Earth rocks, provided the first strong proof that meteorites could come from Mars. Originally weighing nearly 8 kilograms (17.6 pounds), it was collected in 1979 in the Elephant Moraine area of Antarctica. The side of the cube at the lower left in this image measures 1 centimeter (0.4 inches).

This picture shows a sawn face of this fine-grained gray rock. (The vertical stripes are saw marks.) The black patches in the rock are melted rock, or glass, formed when a large meteorite hit Mars near the rock. The meteorite impact probably threw this rock, dubbed "EETA79001," off Mars and toward Antarctica on Earth. The black glass contains traces of martian atmosphere gases.

The Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity has discovered that a rock dubbed "Bounce" at Meridiani Planum has a very similar mineral composition to this meteorite and likely shares common origins. Bounce itself is thought to have originated outside the area surrounding Opportunity's landing site; an impact or collision likely threw the rock away from its primary home.



 'Bounce' and Martian Meteorite of the Same Mold

These two sets of bar graphs compare the elemental compositions of six martian rocks: "Bounce," located at Meridiani Planum; EETA79001-B, a martian meteorite found in Antarctica in 1979; a rock found at the Mars Pathfinder landing site; Shergotty, a martian meteorite that landed in India in 1865; "Adirondack," located at Gusev Crater; and "Humphrey," also located at Gusev Crater. The graph on the left compares magnesium/iron ratios in the rocks, and the graph on the right compares aluminum/calcium ratios. The results illustrate the diversity of rocks on Mars and indicate that Bounce probably shares origins with the martian meterorite EETA79001-B. The Bounce data was taken on sol 68 by the alpha particle X-ray spectrometer on Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity.
 


Best!
Martin





-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von cdtucson at cox.net
Gesendet: Dienstag, 14. September 2010 20:05
An: Aubrey Whymark
Cc: meteoritelist
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Origin of Tektites

Aubrey,
Thank you for that.
As a critical thinker I believe you have to go with the odds until proven otherwise.
I mean even Stephen Hawking thinks there is life elsewhere. This in spite of the fact that we have zero evidence to back up that claim.
He recently stated that he believes a "God" would not have been necessary for life to have begun here on Earth. Again, this conclusion was made based on a gazzillion missing pieces to the puzzle. A few facts and a lot of beliefs.
The truth is that, that is how Science works. It is based as much on beliefs as actual facts in evidence. ie, so far no evidence of life elsewhere. In fact we cannot know with 100% certainty that we even have rocks from Mars. I believe that we do but, my opinion does not make it so. We have not sampled the atmosphere of every other alternative out there yet so, until we do there is no way to be certain. In fact we now know that other space rocks actually share Earth's O isotopes. This makes the puzzle pieces even greater in numbers.
So, when you look at Tektites, the obvious origin is Earth. That is possibly until scientific facts get in the way. So far it seems the facts are leaning in the direction that tektites originated on Earth.
The $10,000 dollar question in most of our minds is only; How they formed?
Science tells us what it would take to form tektites but, not how. The how is still a mystery depending on whom you believe.
It seems to me based on all of the opposing opinions by really smart people that, we have no proven answer. Yet.
For this and many other reasons, namely process of elimination, I lean towards the lightning related causes.
Lightning still being a relatively unknown phenomenon it seems to have room to squeeze tektites into it's realm.
Maybe even lightning associated with a volcano as seen recently in the Icelandic volcano Eyjafjallajoekull, or Eyjafj?ll, where there is clearly photographic evidence of lightning
erupting in an upward direction from the ground up into the sky during it's eruption process.
I am told that lightning is one of the least understood phenomenon on Earth.
my conclusion so far is Lightning is the culprit. Maybe!
My 2 grams.
Carl.

--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax
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Received on Wed 15 Sep 2010 09:20:10 PM PDT