[meteorite-list] Rust Question about my stone meteorite. BKF is the best :)

From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 14:15:40 -0400
Message-ID: <AANLkTimcMD-JspSC_7vNFXLXnChnOzaU8k7_M4NeF=qf_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hi Shawn, Martin and List,

This subject has come up before and opinions vary widely. This is
especially true with irons. I've heard of people using Sheath, WD-40,
motor oil, transmission fluid, phosphoric acid, alcohol, etc.
Treatments which leave any kind of noticeable change in the pristine
(or natural) state of the meteorite are often shunned by some buyers.
Some buyers don't want an oily feel, a detectable odor, color change,
etc. Some collectors prefer to clean off the natural patina or
oxidation, while others prefer to leave it. Generally speaking,
whenever possible, a pristine unaltered specimen is best for
scientific analysis. It's both a question of aesthetics and
artificial preservation/restoration. The same debate goes through the
classic car circles - purists believe only factory-original parts
should be used during restoration, others think it is acceptable to
use modern reproduction parts made to original factory specifications.

With meteorites, especially all non-irons, I personally subscribe to
the "hands off" school of preservation. Oxalic acid might naturally
occur in plants and animals, but does it naturally occur in
meteorites? (in that concentration and state) If not, I would be
hesitant to use it on my own specimens. I can understand the utility
of using it from an aesthetic standpoint on common unclassifieds,
common high-TKW meteorites (Nantan, Campo, Al-Haggounia, etc), but I
wouldn't recommend it for collectible falls, rare types, or any
specimens that may be destined for scientific analysis. Right now I
have an anomalous NWA 2086 CV3 specimen that is undergoing
thin-sectioning and microprobe analysis. The only thing that has ever
touched that meteorite during it's stay in my possession is distilled
water (once during cutting only) and the diamonds shed by the cutting
blade. There is very little contamination to interfere with the
analysis. Sure, it wasn't kept in a dry nitrogen-purged containment
chamber at JSC (which would be ideal), but it hasn't been altered by
me for the sake of aesthetics. I feel more confident in the piece
knowing that. Now, on the other side of the spectrum, a common
unclassified, highly-weathered, NWA OC that is going to be sliced up
and used for display or outreach purposes, might benefit from a good
cleaning up and removal of oxide staining. So I'm not condemning the
practice, I would just caution against using it as a matter of
practice with most meteorites.

Best regards,

MikeG


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites

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On 9/13/10, Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Martin and Listers
>
> Martin BKF is an acid and nothing more.... The acid doesn't bleach the
> surface and the active ingredient is oxalic acid, naturally occurs in plants
> and animals. The acid acts like an accelerant to the surface by stripping
> away the rust. The oxalic acid is nothing more then acid rain on steroids.
> But in this case the rust is stripped away from the meteorite, preserving
> the meteorite.
>
> As for making the meteorite worthless for being used for science, I think we
> can leave that up to the scientists, and to be honest, I think most
> meteorites in peoples collections are void because I bet scientist have
> strict rules on handing and storage of meteorites. But again I am not a
> scientist nor are most people on the list. But at any rate, if a scientist
> was going to use the L6 meteorite for research, I think that they would use
> an acid as well to strip the surface away to get to the good stuff in the
> middle :)
>
> As for changing a weathered meteorite from a W4 to W0 is probably impossible
> if the meteorite is a W4. The reason is because the weathering isn't
> superficial and the weathering is through out the meteorite. You would have
> to strip down the meteorite to nothing. Now do I say that everyone go out
> and do this no, but what I do say is if your confident and know what your
> doing then do it because rust for a meteorite can spell trouble.
>
> As for devaluing a meteorite for research, Martin again I have to say that
> most meteorites that people own could be deemed as worthless because of how
> they are handled, cut, sliced, buffed and stored. But again I don't think we
> all have a science lab in our bedrooms performing science experiments on our
> meteorites. If any thing I was able to stop the process of the meteorite
> from rusting and restore the surface to its original form. In that regard I
> am able to identify the meteorite from its physical features now, making the
> L6 more important from a scientific observation stand point and because I
> can see the meteorite and not rust from old age.
>
> Science 101, to stop an acid one can use a neutralizer aka water
>
> Shawn Alan
> IMCA 1633
> eBaystore
> http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p
> 4340
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [meteorite-list] Rust Question about my stone meteorite. BKF is the best
> :)Martin Altmann altmann at meteorite-martin.de
> Mon Sep 13 08:24:16 EDT 2010
>
>
> Previous message: [meteorite-list] Rust Question about my stone meteorite.
> BKF is the best :)
> Next message: [meteorite-list] Rust Question about my stone meteorite. BKF
> isthe best :)
> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>
> Humhem...please!
>
> No offense. It's absolutely you're private affair, what you're doing with
> your meteorites.
>
> Though in general I think it's a big No-No to manipulate stony meteorites
> that way, to artificially bleach them. (Just was looking, "Bar Keeper
> Friend"s main reactive agent is oxalic acid).
> Stone meteorites are no irons. In my opinion such a treatment will make them
> to a certain degree worthless,
> as they can't be used anymore for scientific measurements.
>
> What I would urgently expect, is to avoid, that such bleached chondrites
> would be brought in circulation.
> The meteorite sector, other than the minerals and fossils sector, all in all
> was so far relatively spared from manipulated or fudged specimens.
>
> It would be in my very personal opinion everything else than good, that W2,
> W3, W4 material now would be pimped to be suggestive of being a W0 or a W1.
>
> I hope we all can agree about?
> Worried
> Martin
>
>
>
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Shawn
> Alan
> Gesendet: Montag, 13. September 2010 07:59
> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Cc: Jimski47 at aol.com
> Betreff: [meteorite-list] Rust Question about my stone meteorite. BKF is the
> best :)
>
> Jim k and the List,
>
>
> I took your advice and used the Bar Keeper Friend on my L6 meteorite
> fragment to remove the rust on the surface of the meteorite due to age and I
> would have to say, wow, this stuff really works. The meteorite looks so much
> better. I can see the true color of the meteorite, I can see the texture and
> the gray matrix. I have a link down below of before and after images of the
> meteorite :) Take a look and you will be amazed of the results.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/48262799 at N03/4985819064/sizes/l/in/photostream/
>
> Shawn Alan
> IMCA 1633
> eBaystore
> http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p
> 4340
>
>
> [meteorite-list] Rust Question about my stone meteorite.
> Jimski47 at aol.com Jimski47 at aol.com
> Sat Sep 11 07:38:57 EDT 2010
>
> Previous message: [meteorite-list] Tunkuska Tektites?
> Next message: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
> September 11, 2010
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>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> Hi Shawn,
>
> I doubt that soaking a meteorite in alcohol will remove rust. I've used
> fine grit sandpaper to remove rust from slices. Lay the sandpaper on a hard
> flat surface and gently rub the meteorite onto the sandpaper. For removing
> rust from iron etched slices, I use a product called "Bar Keepers Friend",
> this can be found in most grocery stores cleaning supplies isle. It comes in
>
> a powder form, so you have to make a thick liquid out of it. Wet the
> meteorite with warm water then apply the liquid BKF. Rub it onto the
> meteorite
> with your finger gently. Rubbing to hard can damage the etch. After removing
>
> the rust, rinse the piece, soak it in alcohol and bake it dry in an oven
> about 200 degrees for 2 hrs.
>
> You can try the BKF process on a chondrite fragment and use a toothbrush
> to scrub it. It should work but you might want to experiment with a cheap
> uncl. NWA first.
>
> Jim K
>
> In a message dated 9/10/2010 11:14:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> photophlow at yahoo.com writes:
> Hello Listers,
>
> I have a question about rust and how to clean it off your L6 meteorite.
> Now can you just soak the meteorite in a 99% alcohol bath for a couple days
> and the rust on the surface will some what come off the surface or are there
>
> other steps?
>
> The the size of the L6 fragment is 3.45g, so I dont have much room to work
> with. I used a sand/finger nail file and sanded the surface, but not sure
> if that made a difference and it seems that the L6 meteorite surface is
> stronger than the sand paper on the finger nail file.
>
> If any Listers have some suggestions let me know please :)
>
> Shawn Alan
> IMCA 1633
> eBaystore
> http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p
>
> 4340
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> BKF is the best :)
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> isthe best :)
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-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
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EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
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Received on Mon 13 Sep 2010 02:15:40 PM PDT