[meteorite-list] Amateur Meteoriticists?

From: cdtucson at cox.net <*cdtucson_at_meteoritecentral.com*> Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 13:43:56 -0400 Message-ID: <20101001134356.ZYX5G.1107940.imail_at_fed1rmwml37> · cdtucson_at_meteoritecentral.com

--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax
---- Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> David's original question got me thinking a little bit about a conversation Guy & I had over dinner a few weeks ago, during his last visit to Tucson. Ill get to that in a moment.
> 
> My own question is this. Are there (m)any amateur meteoriticists out there? IOW, amateurs who contribute to the Science of Meteorites, just as many, many amateur astronomers are doing very real and valuable science, often collaborating with professionals in various areas of research to secure needed observations. Now of course very few amateurs can afford or have the skill set to have a microprobe in their basements, but I would imagine that there are some areas of research that amateurs can contribute to the science. I'm wondering how many amateurs are actively contributing and publishing papers?
> 
> Now to a more direct response to David. Over dinner Guy commented a bit about his work and how amateurs could perform density and specific gravity measurements of their own meteorites. I suggested contacting him, and other scientists for copies of their papers if you don't have access to pay sites. Guy is rather busy and a response may take a while, but I'm sure he'd be happy to correspond with anyone seriously interested in contributing to this effort and offer some direction on how to proceed.
> 
> I can't say he is looking for co-authors, but he may be able to direct interested amateurs to the researchers who would be interested. 
> 
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> Full Moon Photography
> IMCA #1081
> 
> 
> --- On Thu, 9/30/10, David Gunning <davidgunning at fairpoint.net> wrote:
> 
> > From: David Gunning <davidgunning at fairpoint.net>
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [Fwd: RE:  Specific Gravity Question]
> > To: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Thursday, September 30, 2010, 5:44 PM
> > 
> > Hi Sterling,
> > 
> > I've never declined to read any reference that's been
> > offered for my
> > additional understanding, on any subject matter.? More
> > to the point, you
> > might ought to climb down from your high horse, for a
> > minute, and
> > actually read the actual intent of my question.
> > 
> > My question centered around the idea of an individual
> > taking their own
> > specific gravity measurement of their own meteorites.
> > 
> > I take it from your response that you would defer to
> > Brother Consolmagno
> > for any specific gravity measurements you might be curious
> > about.? Just
> > because the good Brother is associated with the Vatican, I
> > wonder, do you
> > treat his findings as gospel?? If so, good for you.
> > 
> > Now, I am sure the good Brother is very exacting in his
> > methods and
> > measurements. I have no difficulty with that.? Good
> > for him!
> > 
> > Most of his references, however, according to the links you
> > provided,
> > have to do with measuring the the grain bulk density of
> > asteroids. 
> > That's quite a headful and a rarefied arena I would not
> > presume to know 
> > much about.? And has, for the most part, little, if
> > any, practical
> > application with actually measuring the specific gravity of
> > meteorites.
> > 
> > As may be, I think it's rather silly of you to compare
> > measuring home
> > grown specific gravity values of meteorites with measuring
> > the bulk grain
> > density of asteroids (or the bulk grain density of
> > meteorites, for that
> > matter).
> > 
> > They are horses of different colors.
> > 
> > One valuable insight I was able to glean from the good
> > Brother's writing
> > is when he suggests that his margin of error in his
> > measurements is
> > something on the order of plus or minus .07 percent, if I
> > understand
> > correctly.? That agrees with my own estimation of a
> > possible range of
> > error for ordinary specific gravity measurements for
> > meteorites.
> > 
> > My stated interest has to do with common meteorites (if
> > such a term may
> > apply!) and how ordinary people might gain more insight
> > into their own
> > ordinary meteorites (to the extent that any meteorite can
> > be thought of
> > as being "ordinary"!) by utilizing traditionally proven
> > time worn methods
> > of measuring the specific gravity of their own space
> > rocks.
> > 
> > Is there something intrinsically wrong with wanting to do
> > that?
> > 
> > Glad tidings!
> > 
> > Dave Gunning
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > Hi, Dave,
> > >
> > > You should try actually reading the references that
> > > people give to help you with your question. If you
> > > had, you would have found the citation to the
> > published
> > > data in about 30 seconds, just like I did:
> > >
> > > Consolmagno, G. J. and D. T. Britt, 1998, The Density
> > > and Porosity of Meteorites from the Vatican
> > Collection,
> > >? Meteoritics and Planetary Science, vol. 33, p.
> > 1231-1241.
> > >
> > > Getting unpaid internet access to a scholarly journal
> > is
> > > another matter, though.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sterling K. Webb
> > >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "David Gunning" <davidgunning at fairpoint.net>
> > > To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > > Cc: <davidgunning at fairpoint.net>
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 7:08 AM
> > > Subject: [meteorite-list] [Fwd: RE: Specific Gravity
> > Question]
> > >
> > >
> > >> --------------------------- Original
> > >> Message ----------------------------
> > >> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Specific Gravity
> > Question
> > >> From:? ? "David Gunning" <davidgunning at fairpoint.net>
> > >> Date:? ? Thu, September 30, 2010 7:55
> > am
> > >> To:? ? ? "Peter Scherff" <peterscherff at rcn.com>
> > >>
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >> Howdy,
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for the e-burp.
> > >>
> > >> There was no link, however, to the "published data
> > for hundreds of
> > >> meteorites", mentioned in your e-burp.? Why
> > allude to information that
> > >> cannot be referenced and verified?
> > >>
> > >> While it's interesting to read of your specific
> > gravity bead method,
> > >> there are other less convoluted ways or dealing
> > with the fear of
> > >> potential contamination in meteorites and mineral
> > samples, in general.
> > >>
> > >> What particularly interests me is exploring ways
> > and utilizing lower
> > >> tech
> > >> methods that bring the ordinary collector into the
> > the loop.
> > >>
> > >> Your suggested method would seem to exclude that
> > possibility.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Hi,
> > >>>
> > >>> Here is the way around contamination
> > >>> http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Aug99/densityMeasure.html.
> > Guy Consolmagno
> > >>> has
> > >>> published data for hundreds of meteorites.
> > >>>
> > >>> Peter
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> > >>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]
> > On Behalf Of
> > >>> David
> > >>> Gunning
> > >>> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 6:46 AM
> > >>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > >>> Cc: davidgunning at fairpoint.net
> > >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Specific Gravity
> > Question
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi All,
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm a confessed specific gravity advocate for
> > all things
> > >>> mineralogical,
> > >>> including meteorites.? It seems to me
> > that there is very little
> > >>> useful
> > >>> specific gravity information on the web
> > concerning meteorites, with
> > >>> the
> > >>> singular exception of Randy L. Korotev',
> > excellent website at
> > >>> Washington
> > >>> University in St. Louis;? an informative
> > website listing various
> > >>> specific
> > >>> gravity values for various meteorite types and
> > classifications.
> > >>>
> > >>> It occurs to me that many people may not be
> > taking specific gravity
> > >>> measurements of their meteorite specimens
> > because of some sort of
> > >>> biased
> > >>> but unfounded fear of specimen contamination.
> > Is this true?
> > >>>
> > >>> One of the benefits of measuring specific
> > gravity is in being able to
> > >>> spot density anomalies in meteorites.?
> > For example, you procure a
> > >>> small
> > >>> meteorite specimen of a meteorite has been
> > classified as an "L"
> > >>> ordinary
> > >>> stoney chondrite, with a range of specific
> > gravity values, as found
> > >>> on
> > >>> Professor Korotev' s.g. list, of between 2.50
> > and 3.96 (with an
> > >>> average
> > >>> s.g. of 3.35).? When you, yourself,?
> > measure the specific gravity of
> > >>> your
> > >>> L chondrite, and it's s.g. value comes in at
> > 4.06, what does that
> > >>> mean?
> > >>>
> > >>> Would such a s.g. reading #1: be
> > possible?? And #2: be meaningful?
> > >>>
> > >>> Are meteorite specific gravity values
> > exclusively constrained to the
> > >>> range of values that the scientists peg them
> > at?
> > >>>
> > >>> And, if not, if actual specific gravity
> > measurements cam occur
> > >>> outside
> > >>> the conventionally accepted range of values of
> > the "experts", should
> > >>> anyone give a hoot one way or another?
> > >>>
> > >>> Best wishes,
> > >>>
> > >>> Dave Gunning
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > ______________________________________________
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> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
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> > >
> > 
> > 
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