[meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics

From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com <star_wars_collector_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 01:28:35 +0000
Message-ID: <2109878507-1273454900-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-392983553-_at_bda337.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

I agree with a good deal of what johnno says.
I would also like to offer this thought as a collector...
We all know there is cost, I don't like the fact that ways we get by with the IRS is being used as guidelines to get by on collectors.

We break everything down to the IRS to get more money back. When that same exact set of rules is used for pricing meteorites, collectors who see this will buy elsewhere.

Collectors are not the IRS. To see us/them and meteorites associated with such things is not good and goes to show what I see as a recent trend to use commodity based and other ways to make high prices seem legitimate.

At $100 per gram, a 80g stone after cutting will bring about$7000.00
Cost in the field if you buy it, $2-$10 per gram that's makes a profit of about $6200 on just 70g of material.

That's just 70g. If you get only that in one week, you have done VERY WELL.

To go a step further, use johns numbers to get what you do in profit after one weeks cost for a total of about $4000 profit. That's IF you make $50 an hour.

Just my thoughts and numbers.

Greg


Sent on the Sprint? Now Network from my BlackBerry?

-----Original Message-----
From: "John.L.Cabassi" <John at Cabassi.net>
Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 18:03:59
To: 'Michael Blood'<mlblood at cox.net>; 'Met. Eric Wichman Escondido'<eric at meteoritesusa.com>; 'Meteorite List'<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics

G'Day Michael, Eric and List
There is really no issue here. It costs money to hunt anything down.
Buried treasure from a hoist, as well as past pirates. Or maybe you just
nugget shoot, If you decide to hunt a meteorite, you take the
consequences; there's no difference. You could be frugal or you could be
frivolous. Before I got into meteorites, I hunted gold, still do. So I
get the word that some big nuggets are being found, now this is
hypothetical so don't get your knickers in a knot. In an area out of my
state, I rally up the team, myself and my wife and head off. Sure
there's gas involved and at the moment rather expensive, I have the
truck serviced just before I leave (just on the safe side) and hope to
find that retirement nugget. We carry all our food, pitch a tent (no
restaurants for us), 5 days into the search, I pick up a 1 ounce nugget,
spot price $1208/ounce, take into account 5 days wages $2000 and if
you're questioning this, I do earn $50/hour. We had water, food,
incidentals.. Let's be nice here and on the frugal side $150. I can get
quite creative with a can of spam. So now we have a full tank, $57. I
fill up at the 3/4 mark another $20. I do the reverse on the way home,
so that's $154.

So what do we have here? No motels, cooking on an open fire, $2000 in
lost wages (but then again, I might not have been working on those 5
day), $154 in gas, $150 in food (now that's right out there; I'm dining
at the top of the food chain), let's not exclude a possible breakdown,
blown transmission, blown tire that needs to be replaced, oh and don't
forget medical bills in case you get bitten by a rattlesnake. So we're
looking at $2304 in expenses, this is not including medical expenses for
the snake bite or possible mechanical failures.

So can I sell my nugget for $3500? I doubt it. Hunting gold, hunting
treasure, hunting meteorites ... Is all about fun. You can never recoup
back what you estimate a value for on something that you enjoy doing.

Enjoy the hunt. Forget the money. Enjoy! And to those on this list that
are mothers, Happy Mother's Day.

Cheers
John


-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
Michael Blood
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 5:24 PM
To: Met. Eric Wichman Escondido; Meteorite List
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics


Simple:
        Tax laws were written by and for the wealthy - therefore,
entertainment is an "expense" IF it is taking place to "woo" a Potential
buyer, seller, etc, or as an defacto payment to employees
- also known as a "perk" or to simply build a trusting relationship With
other professionals.
        So, for tax purposes if one hunted this meteorite to make Money
from sales of same and if sales of same will be reported As income on
one's taxes and IF said entertainment were with Other hunters - it would
be an expense based on "greasing the Skids" or to proffer favor or to
build a trusting relationship by Which one may benefit in terms of the
possibility of info being Shared, inclusion on a hunting "party" etc,
etc.
        If one is a dealer he can also write off ALL expenses related To
keeping a dog - even a Chihuahua, as they function as deterrent to theft
of goods related to sales - even if only their yapping Acts as an alarm.
(I don't go this far, myself, but it is perfectly legal).
        However, for the purpose of estimating out of pocket costs On a
hunting expedition, it becomes debatable, but cannot be ruled Out
entirely out of hand for the same reasons that it can be written off re
taxes.
        Best wishes, Michael


On 5/9/10 2:08 PM, "Met. Eric Wichman Escondido"
<eric at meteoritesusa.com>
wrote:

> I would agree now that entertainment is not quite an expense and
> debatable, I stand corrected on that. We could debate all day long
> over the "WHAT and WHY" any costs should be considered an expense. In
> order to alleviate some of this confusion I'll list the main expenses
> below, minus any incidentals. If you gave me the leeway to make a rule

> it would be...
>
> "If money spent while in the field was related to hunting and
> necessary to provide the time and resources needed to hunt and/or
> recover meteorites on the WI meteorite hunt, then that money shall be
> considered an expense."
>
> Most hunters I know eat out at restaurants 2-3 times per day (due to
> convenience and time constraints) so food should be included as an
> expense simply because eating at restaurants is not an "everyday"
> expense as most people don't eat out "every day" much less 3 times per

> day. This increases your regular food cost by a large percentage.
> However, as Rob Matson pointed out, sometimes it's less expensive as
> in this example for California it is very expensive to eat out. This
> is an exception rather than the rule I think. I would say at least 75%

> of all food cost perhaps the full 100% is fair to include as an
> expense since the average is higher while traveling vs eating at home.
>
> Alcoholic beverages need not be included as they are not necessary to
> the recovery of meteorites. Perhaps this might be debatable too... ;)
> lol
>
> This includes:
> ---------------------------------
> Food & Drink (non-alcoholic)
> Gas/Fuel
> Hotel
> Car Rental
> Airfare
> Purchases (equipment, clothes, boots, rain gear, meteorites,
> newspapers,
> etc.)
> Fees (charged by landowners to hunt)
> ---------------------------------
>
> I hope this list clears things up. We'll see...
>
> Regards,
> Eric
>
> On 5/9/2010 12:42 PM, Bob Loeffler wrote:
>> I disagree. Entertainment and food should NOT be counted as field
>> expenses. As Ryan mentioned, you have to eat food no matter whether
>> you are out collecting meteorites or staying at home watching TV. I
>> would understand a
>> *percentage* of food costs should be allowed because the cost of food
in
>> some areas will be higher than normal, but I don't know what a "good"
>> percentage would be.
>>
>> As for entertainment, that should not be allowed because that could
>> skew your numbers drastically. For example, if Geoff, Steve #1
>> Arnold, Ruben, etc go to a nudie bar and drink shots of alcohol, the
>> total bill could run into the hundreds or thousands of $$$ (hahaha)
>> and that shouldn't be included since they could do all of that in
>> Tucson. That's an extreme example, but I know that there is always
>> at least one "get together" on these types of field trips. Only
>> expenses that are in addition to what you would normally have from
>> your daily lives should be included.
>>
>> You (Eric) are the one who is compiling this list, so you make the
>> rules, but I (and many others) won't believe the results if you
>> include stuff like that. When I go on a trip for my company, they
>> want all receipts and an expense report and then they go through each

>> item one by one to see what they will reimburse me for and what they
>> won't. Most entertainment expenses are NOT reimbursed because the
>> Federal government has rules and regulations that companies have to
>> abide by.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
>> Meteorites USA
>> Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 12:16 PM
>> To: fallingfusion at wi.rr.com
>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics
>>
>> Food is still an expense. As is entertainment while on a business
>> trip... All expenses should be included while on the road, as they
>> are still "expenses". Many hunters don't have time to go to the
>> grocery store, so to save time they eat out, which adds to the total.

>> Any money spent on the recovery of meteorites in the field are
>> expenses.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/9/2010 11:00 AM, fallingfusion at wi.rr.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Eric...
>>>
>>> Just wondering why food should be included for expenses. Don't
>>> people eat
>>>
>> when they're not on a hunting expedition? Sure, eating out may be
>> more expensive, but this isn't exactly fine dining were talking about

>> here. - Standard fare.
>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Meteorites USA<eric at meteoritesusa.com>
>>> Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 10:30:10
>>> To: Meteorite-list<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics
>>>
>>> Hi listees and fellow meteorite hunters in the field. I'm back from
>>> the field and I'm compiling (unscientifically) some statistical data

>>> that I've not yet seen anyone attempt to calculate in any way but a
>>> cursory manner thus far. If you've hunted the WI meteorite fall, and

>>> have data you'd like to share, please send me an email with your
>>> hunting information/statistics.
>>>
>>> Primarily what I'm looking for is totals, hours hunted, days hunted,

>>> meteorites found, and costs associated with this hunt. I'd like to
>>> do this while WI is fresh in everyone's minds and I think that will
>>> provide the most reliable information, and also give some an idea of

>>> the costs in time and money that go into recovering meteorites from
>>> the field.
>>>
>>> Please send in the following format to make it easier to add all
>>> totals. If you can think of any other data that should be included
>>> in this list, please feel free to respond on-list so others can add
>>> their input.
>>>
>>> I will be including all my totals as well in this data.
>>>
>>> Total Days In The Field:
>>> Total Hours Hunted Per Day:
>>> Total Miles Walked Per Day:
>>> Total Costs: (including airfare, hotel, rental car, food, fuel, cost

>>> of meteorites purchased, miscellaneous expenses; i.e. "pay to hunt"
>>> expenses) This need not be itemized, and can be a total cost for
>>> your hunt... Total Number of Meteorites Found:
>>> Total Weight Found:
>>>
>>> This survey is completely anonymous, and your identity will be kept
>>> confidential, all you need send is totals/numbers.
>>>
>>> In addition, those of you who'd like to share coordinates that would

>>> also be appreciated, again, your anonymity will be kept unless you
>>> state specifically that you wouldn't mind releasing your identity
>>> publicly in association with your data.
>>>
>>> All this information will be published on my site and on-list to
>>> share with everyone in a completely transparent and "open" manner.
>>>
>>> Thank you all in advance for your cooperation.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Eric Wichman
>>> Meteorites USA ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>
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>>>
>>>
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Received on Sun 09 May 2010 09:28:35 PM PDT